California Governor Denies Clemency

And that's just plain wrong. The total cost to execute an obviously guilty murderer like Tookie Williams ought to be about $25 for the bullets or the rope. Bring back frontier justice, and in particular against gangs who commit racially motivated warfare in our inner cities under the guise of forwarding the cause of their particular minority.

 

"obviously guilty murderer"

Hm.

Well, determining WHETHER he was an "obviously guilty murderer" is certainly a good part of the cost...what percentage of Illinois' convicted murderers have thus far been shown to be innocent through DNA evidence? So many that the Republican, pro death penalty governor completely stopped executions in that state?

Frontier Justice? Remember the story of Jacob Frank? Lynched, he was, while in a minimum security Georgia prison for raping and murdering a child...of course, the reason he was there is the Governor became concerned, then convinced, that Frank was innocent (which he was).

Obviously guilty murderer...there's an idea. Not too many murders are commited in public before reliable witnesses, you know.

 

Even with all of the legal protections in place, we see many people wrongly convicted. Some estimates have the total of people already executed who did not commit the crimes they're accused of during the last century at more than 100.

"Frontier justice" was often all "frontier" and no "justice."

Funny how quickly people are willing to toss away the same rights that protect them. But you can't get them back if you suddenly need them.

 

Carl,
I agree, Tookie found typical jail house religion only when he discovered his life hung in the balance and tried tipping the (generally) benevolent scales of our society in his favor, just as he tripped the sear of a shotgun blast into his favor from an earlier endeavor.

Once again, anti-capital punishment is for utopian ideals; many who oppose capital punishment would not surprise me in the least if they instantly abandon the concept if a cherished loved one's life hung in the balance and quickly chose to go to work on a predator with a garrote made of piano wire. That is, if conditions allowed and necessitated squeezing the last ounce of life out of a monster to secure the safety of a loved one.

Tell me, who is willing to step forward and say " If I could determine the outcome of own child's life, I would choose the predator"? After all, the physical aspect is death, weather; you, the state, or a monster deals it out, correct? Seemingly the anti-captial punishment folks always parrot " See there, you can't argue the case for captial punishment without the fallacy of emotion playing in". It's a hard question, but we can't have a double standard nor emotions playing into the equation now can we?
If society spins off a predator in a personal direction lets don't get flippy on the subject, but instead remain steadfast and consistent in those beliefs. Leave those 180 degree decision making skills to the most experienced; politicians!

However little boys and girls do me a favor, dont embrace a double standard if and when a hideous creature affects you personally, but instead bare your cross no matter how much it smashes your idyllic concepts of society, and for God's sake, check your emotions at the door.
So in essence, capital punishment is bad to most people; the unaffected casual observer from a distance, but when it's up close and personal; eye to eye; phone booth work, anything can be rationalized and by anyone.

Yea, I agree this whole thread belongs in a poli-chat.
Gavin

 

You confuse immediate need with vengeance.

 

No, just trying to demonstrate that perhaps many people who hold anti-capital punishment concepts dear and close to their hearts would even go beyond agreed upon social restraints and turn to torture if felt compelled to do so, whereby, facing a contradiction of personal beliefs with everyday reality.
Once again capital punishment to the casual observer is a bad thing when seen insulated from its affects, as if peering into a whimsical holiday season snow globe. However, if it acts as a deterrent for only one individual a year, it was worth the effort, because the individuals currently languishing on death row committed their acts earlier and are a foregone conclusion other than the appeals process.
So if the argument is: “Well you are simply trading a life for a life”…well, we are back to a further deterioration of society by treating victim and aggressor alike…so much for utopia.

Do you really think the killing stops just because they were removed from society and locked up forever? Anybody out there have the numbers on how many convicted murders are behind bars and still find a way to continue killing?....so much for utopia.

Remember the Susan Smith case and how two beautiful innocent children, who in all likelihood thought the world of their Mother, but instead were trapped in a car as it slowly submerged into a lake. They say drowning is hideous, the heart, brain and lungs feel as if they are going to burst as the body convulses violently in its death throes…not a pleasant thought, nor a happy ending for two innocent children, but you “gotta” see the stark reality past the snow globe for how society really is out there…so much for utopia.

Oh, almost forgot, remember Susan Smith? Well she was transferred to another prison a few years ago because she was having sex with a guar. Wow she can still satisfy her needs and desires in prison after killing two innocent children…so much for utopia.

 

Actually, more than likely the guard was satisfying his needs but not hers.