Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by saharapost, Jul 1, 2013.
Yep. At this point, I will be more surprised if they do get accredited.
Feeling cynical here, as well. Just go elsewhere.
That's great news. Long after NAPNSC, Liverpool stickers, Canterbury endorsement, Uni. of Wales validation and attempts at both RA and NA accreditation, it's nice to know Trinity is now secure in its unaccredited state. :smile:
The big however is that Nations is not a candidate for DEAC accreditation - the DEAC website makes it clear that they do not have "candidacy" status.
In short, they are merely a perpetual applicant to DEAC. And as long as they are, they can claim to be pursuing accreditation (which, most of us appear to agree, they are unlikely to ever achieve).
As many know, I do not think much of DEAC. I thought more of them back in their very old days as the National Home Study Council, when they accredited art schools that featured Sparky the Squirrel (or whomever) on matchbook covers, but the notion that they now accredit doctoral programs doesn't square well with my belief that doctoral programs should have more accountability than the totally non-resident programs possess.
Nonetheless, there are several degree mill indicators on the Nations web site, not the least of which is its location in New Orleans, a haven for schools (including mills) that exist under a religious exemption. The inclusion of a "PMB" (private mail box) number in their address also indicates that their address is a mail forwarding service or private box site. (Ditto the publication of a toll-free phone number but not a local phone number.)
Continuing to believe in the notion that they might actually become accredited? I believe it's covered by 2 Tim. 4:3-4. (Yeah, I know - always work to your audience.) Nations is, and has always been, a joke. And if by chance they do gain DEAC accreditation, it will simply mean that they've improved their act (and it would simply reinforce my opinion of DEAC). But I wouldn't hold my breath. Can you spell c-y-a-n-o-s-I-s?
OK, I'm going to say this thing that is probably going to come off as a little rude. Here we go...
The time to consider your school's accreditation is not when you are mostly through the program. My point earlier is that 1) if accreditation doesn't matter to you, then run with it. There are plenty of people who go to Trinity or LBU and they love it to bits. They are perfectly fine having a state approved, but not accredited, degree. If you fit into that camp, have fun. 2) if accreditation does matter to you then you should have applied to an accredited school not started coursework with them and hoped that they would eventually get it.
Yeah yeah, "accreditation was just around the corner" I know. But it wasn't accredited. DEAC doesn't have candidacy status so you can't even pitch that. When it comes to DEAC, a school is either accredited or not. And Nations has always fallen solidly in the "not accredited" bucket.
You knew that going in and you still continued to study. I would put money on the fact that you are walking away from this experience without an accredited degree. Just like, I am sure, that this thread is going to get resurrected every year until my kids go to college by some hopeful who swears that "this is the year."
NU is an "Initial Applicant for Accreditation" because they submitted an application. Likely because maintaining an active application is really all they need to do to convince their acolytes that they are "trying." Don't worry, they'll withdraw that application before the site visit. I can submit an application every year to be an astronaut (even after NASA tells me "no"). That doesn't mean I'm ever going to become an astronaut.
Though, I will say that my fat, near-sighted self probably has a better shot at becoming an astronaut than Nations has of achieving DEAC accreditation at this point.
I would suggest that you finish your program and enjoy all of the benefits that an unaccredited degree confers or go find another program at an accredited institution. You can chalk this experience up to betting on the wrong horse.
Trinity is a weird entity, in my opinion. When last we discussed it we found quite the handful of professors and administrators at accredited schools who had doctorates from Trinity. I know when I swam in the pool of evangelical christianity there were more than a handful of Trinity educated folks. Everyone seemed to think well of the school and there was never mention of it being unaccredited. I can't really speak for how the whole of Christianity views the school.
They do what they do. And there are some people who really like them. There are some circles that seem to respect their credentials despite their lack of accreditation. To me, I find it shady that they can't even achieve accreditation by TRACS. I mean, I realize TRACS has stepped up their game, but their website looks like it was made by a 7th grader in 1997.
And yet, despite all of Trinity's astonishing accreditation/validation failures (Liverpool, Canterbury, Wales, RA, NA etc.) people still continue to "attend." Clearly there are people who are OK earning degrees from unaccredited schools. And, at least some of, those people haven't been held back by the school's lack of accreditation. At this point a Trinity student would be foolish to sit and hope for accreditation (as it seems they've given up on trying). And we can endlessly debate whether Trinity is a diploma mill or not. But they are what they are and they don't really try to hide it.
Personally, I think Nations uses their "applicant status" to lend credibility to their unaccredited school. I think they will constantly apply for accreditation and then withdraw their applications so that they can win over prospective students by showing how they are making an earnest effort to become accredited. Nations, unlike Trinity, isn't OK just being unaccredited. They are still trying, very hard in my opinion, to give the impression that they are something more.
As has been pointed out in the past, this strategies of always being an "applicant" for accreditation is a common ploy for degree mills and it seems that Nations is reaching the point where people are no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's one thing to be a new school struggling to enter the big leagues, it's another just to be a scam.
Saharapost might walk away without an accredited degree from NU, but he already has one from TESC. He's now in graduate school at a regionally accredited college.
Yes, I can imagine how annoying it is for a Nations student. On the plus side, I can't imagine DEAC giving Nations this long to meet requirements unless they felt there was still some hope of eventual success. Next DEAC meeting is June 24-26 and as I see it ANYTHING could happen re: Nations. Or nothing...as has happened numerous times before.
I think something will happen then. I think a decision will be made - and I have no idea what.
And Dr. Steve - I know there have been many mills in Louisiana in the past - but that's all water under Breaux Bridge, now - isn't it? :smile: There's also Tulane, LSU and a bunch more -- really great schools. Yes, I know they're accredited and have more than post-box addresses... My point: geographical location alone doesn't always define a school.
Never been there, but I love Louisiana. You're reading a post by a guy who has two accordions, cooks jambalaya and has a stack of LPs (yep - old-school vinyl) by Clifton Chenier, Boozoo Chavis, Beausoleil, Buckwheat Zydeco an' them. I saw Buckwheat (Stanley Dural) here in my home town, when he opened for Eric Clapton.
Aiyeeee! Laissez les bons temps rouler! (Let the good times roll!) And Nations - lâche pas la patate. (Don't give up.)
That's swell but irrelevant.
Whenever you enroll in a program, academic or otherwise, you have to consider whether you feel the program is "worth it." Now, there are many times when I have taken a course for personal enrichment that does not lead to an academic credential. Every time I enroll in a MOOC I do exactly that. The MOOC is a fun little nugget of education. I don't get credit for it. It doesn't lead to a degree (though some can lead to certificates). I accept the MOOC for what the MOOC is and what the MOOC offers.
If I really, really, really wanted to enroll in say, St. Clement Seminary, because I really loved their programming and thought they were a swell bunch of guys and gals then it might not matter to me that my degree is unaccredited. That it would qualify me for ordination in the Universal Catholic Church would be a bonus if I, in any manner, desired ordination in the Universal Catholic Church. It may well be that I have been with the UCC since the very beginning and this is the next logical step for me. In this case, I am desirous of receiving something that accreditation simply doesn't impact.
But then if I go this route, I should probably be aware that my degree will never be accredited. I already have an RA bachelors and an NA Masters. So having a Bachelor of Divinity from St. Clement, unaccredited or otherwise, is unlikely to impact my employment prospects. So if I, right now, stood up and said "Sanantone, today is the day that I will enroll in St. Clement's Seminary and earn a Bachelor of Divinity." Well then, so be it. I've accepted what St. Clement's Seminary offers.
Saharapost has indicated that accreditation of NU is important because he's present studying with them. My point is that if you care about accreditation. If you insist that your religious education be completed through an accredited degree then enrolling in NU was a mistake. Plain and simple. You may have thought that NU was going to become accredited in the future. You took a gamble by betting on that outcome. But the number is very unlikely to come up at this point.
It doesn't matter if you have other accredited degrees. Whenever you enroll in any program you have to decide what is important at the outset. Is it the name recognition? Is it the accreditation? Is it the rankings? Is it all of these things? And if accreditation is that important to you then an unaccredited school is a bad choice. If a ranked business program is important to you then the University of Phoenix is a bad choice. If Regional Accreditation is important to you then Ashworth is a bad choice. I did a quickie LinkedIn search and found four individuals who have undergraduate degrees from Ivy League schools while also possessing MBAs from the University of Phoenix. If they simply wanted an accredited MBA, then they accomplished it. If they wanted the prestige associated with top ranked schools, bad choice.
Similar situation here. An Ivy undergrad doesn't raise the prestige of your UoP MBA. That may not matter to you. But you need to consider these things before you enroll.
One thing we tend to forget here. Those outside the U.S. study at Nations for FREE. How disappointed is one allowed to be, in a FREE degree?
And what I should have added about Louisiana and degree mills is this: There may be mills in Louisiana - call 'em as you see 'em. But no school, however deficient, is a mill just because it's in Louisiana. Some other jurisdictions....hmmm.
As a non-US citizen and chief-novice, I was unaware about how accreditation works in the US when I enrolled at Penn Foster, Ashworth College, and Nations University. The statement on NU's website that
was, in my view, a statement that it was accredited. Thanks to Degreeinfo and Degreeforum with its wonderful members whose posts and discussions opened my eyes.
To cut the story short, I dived into NU with the aim of earning a free degree from a university I believed was accredited. When I knew what accreditation meant and the various types of accreditation out there, I have gone far in the program. Given the rigorous nature of the courses and the level of work I put into the program, I decided to go on (even when I knew it wasn't accredited) with the aim of transferring to Liberty and other universities said be accepting NU's degrees. It was along the line I learned NU was seeking DETC (now DEAC) accreditation and I thought it wise to hold on to get an accredited degree... It was during this period I began testing and finally TECEPing out my degree at TESC. Like Sanantone said, I am currently in a RA MBA program. And, that I already have a RA degree doesn't mean I shouldn't work towards completing an already started program and getting another accredited degree. And, that is what I am doing now- trying to earn a NA degree. Who knows what tomorrow might say...
Other resources students put into the program don't make studying entirely free. Books (for some courses) are required and are not provided. Printing of course materials (if one likes) and of course the time forgone while taking any NU class do not make the program entirely free. In pidgin English, we say: "Time na money"
Yes - you're right and I take my remark back completely. If you've done a lot of work (as Nations requires, so I'm told) and you don't get the result you hoped for, that valuable time is gone. Well, learning did take place, but still ...
Another pidgin proverb I like: "Na condition wey make crayfish bend." :smile:
Av been wanting to ask where you learned Pidgin English. In fact, "na condition make my crayfish bend"
I've learned little tiny bits of African languages -- and Pidgin English -- from cool Africans on the web -- some in this very forum. :smile:
Google is very good with this. Easy to find pages of proverbs or phrases in any language. I've looked at Swahili, Kikuyu, Igbo, Bambara, Pidgin, others. Always liked languages...always will.
Nations University worked for me. I successfully finished my degree with an A average, learning a great deal about theology from a COC POV in the process, and then transferred to a well known university accredited by The Higher Learning Commission The Higher Learning Commission and finished a master's degree.
My transfer status was conditional, of course, and only validated after maintaining an acceptable GPA through my first year (e.g. two consecutive semesters).
Benefits: I learned a great deal about the Christian worldview from a COC POV, saved a great deal of money on an undergraduate degree, and was able to continue my day job while finishing the NU degree.
Downside: NU is not yet accredited and transfer opportunities were limited, arduous, and conditional.
Was the masters program (you transferred to) theology related?
Great! Glad it worked for you.
The Distance Education Accrediting Commission has accredited NationsUniversity!
Separate names with a comma.