Bethany to seek AABC Accreditation

Thank you Russell for pointing this out. I see I was beginning to engage in old patterns albeit a lot more conciliatory and respectful than the despicable and gutter-level posts of mine last year. Old habits and patterns are very hard to break. Just to be sure I stay on track I have placed the above-mentioned gentlemen and a few others on my "ignore list." I posted this a day or two ago in a more lengthy message:

There will be those who won't accept it and continue to be doubtful. This is not my problem, it is theirs. I have done my part. The rest is up to them. Take care Russell and thanks for the post on Bethany as I was unaware of some of this.

 

Sure. But what about this guy recently posting on a.e.d. as Jimmy Clifton ([email protected]) whose sig file (straight text, no links) is as follows:

• Jimmy Clifton
  Delta State University, B.S.
  Bethany Theological Seminary, Th.M., Ph.D.
  California College for Health Sciences (M.S. in progress)
  Golden State School of Theology (M.Div. in progress)
  Vista University (Ph.D., in application)

I am all for giving Jimmy a second (or is it a third, fourth or fifth?) chance. In fact, he and I had many respectful discussions on another forum, long after he requested that his account on this forum be terminated. All I am asking for is that he not insult the intelligence of those who have known him for years, because that is precisely the behavior that he ostensibly repudiating. Is that too much to ask? The slate should not be wiped clean just to enable Jimmy to resume the same shenanigans with impunity.

Not very likely. Jimmy’s sole reason for posting is personal attention and self-aggrandizement (he may no longer claim multiple degree mill doctorates, but an individual cannot so easily dispose of the underlying reasons for having done so).

Wait a minute! You mean oxpecker isn’t your real name? I’m shocked, I tell you, shocked!

OK, in truth, not really. If you recall, I was the first to point out (long before you changed your name) that, although is sounded like a real name, your previous moniker was a pseudonym. In fact, the only reason I could ever come up with for your name change was that you did not want to mislead anyone into believing that was your real name.

 

Bethany is no more corrupt than any other school that has previously claimed bogus accreditation, even though one of the organizations from which it claimed accreditation, coincidentally, was located at the exact same address as the school.

What I can't figure out is why someone like Rick Walston chooses not to list the doctorate he received from Bethany.

 

IMO, Levicoff would probably not think too highly of the school within your fellowship, Unk. While Steve has made a valuable contribution to religous DL, one which I respect, his opinion of a particular school is not absolute.

There is no attempt to confuse the issues. The thread began with a post regarding Bethany, then digressed into another wrestling match with Jimmy. My post was in regard to Bethany, not Jimmy.

 

Many schools have made unwise decisions, especially in the early days of their existence. Even schools which now enjoy RA. Could it be that as Bethany became aware of the implications of ACI accreditation they chose not to be associated with the agency?

As for Rick, he has three Ph.D.'s, so why list them all?

 

I also doubt that Levicoff would like it. I certainly do not take his opinion as an absolute. Probably I am more likely to give an institution the benefit of the doubt than he is, but that's only a guess. I know for sure he has done much more research than I have and has had far more experience in fundamentalist circles than I.

I am also very clear that our seminary has never, ever, at any time claimed any accreditation or outside approval--and that it has maintained our tradition's classical seminary course of study without dumbing down at all. It does not accept students from outside our fellowship, so no one who enrolls there does so without full knowledge of the institution's strengths and weaknesses. It does not tolerate faculty claiming degrees they do not possess. It does not fund or approve continuing faculty education at non-RA-accredited institutions. It does not offer any earned doctoral degrees, and only very rarely confers an honorary doctorate--and never to a donor. It does not accept transfer credit from any outside institution except Bethany of Mankato, and then only on a case by case basis. It does not advertise. It does not shill. It requires no flacks. It does not whine if anyone disapproves of it for being non-accredited. It claims no bias against it from any legitimate accrediting agency.

Whether it is academically up to the standards of legitimate accreditors, I do not know. I suspect that it is, based on my own awareness of other seminaries, but I do not know that for sure. It may exceed standards in some areas. It may not meet them in others. Since I don't know, I do not want to draw the parallel to Bob Jones University, which many have said is academically on par with RA schools.

Let me reiterate: maybe, just maybe, Bethany of Dothan deserves the benefit of the doubt. Maybe, just maybe, if--if--there are dubious things in its past, they are trying to clean them up. Since Clifton's behavior does not change, except by the addition of smarmy pious blatherskite, I don't think he does deserve the benefit of the doubt. Let the dead bury the dead.

 

This is a plausible theory, but not historically accurate. Perhaps you were not aware that Dr. Walston had written an email to the readers of his guide expressing his dismay at Bethany’s decision to be “accredited” by ACI. As the contents of this email have been freely reproduced on the Internet, I’ll quote a small section here.

• ”This is most disturbing news as the history of the ACI is not wonderful and they have ‘accredited’ some very questionable schools. I have communicated with Bethany about their ‘accreditation’ with the ACI, and I am sad to report that they seem to be more concerned about what it will do for them to be able to claim ‘some sort of accreditation’ than they are about their reputation. Bethany's president told me that he was quite aware of the questionable information about the ACI, and he still chose to have Bethany become ‘accredited’ by the ACI.”

Therefore, it seems the folks at Bethany knew exactly what they were doing and the possible repercussions.

That, precisely, was my point. Being that two out of the three doctorates are from degree mills and he has no compunction listing one degree mill doctorate, what does he find so objectionable about the other?

 

...or maybe not...

 

It would be interesting to have an objective report on Bethany, from people who have no vested interest (one way or the other) in the school.

 

This could well be true. If so, it appears the "questionable information about ACI" was much worse than initially thought. Bethany chose, after only a brief period of association, to withdraw from the agency. This, IMO, is certainly a positive move on Bethany's part.

 

How positive do you view setting up your own bogus accreditor to accredit your school?

 

The unrecognized accreditor NAPNSC lists Bethany (Dothan) as an applicant as of May 2002, the last time that their instituional listing webpage was updated.

http://www.napnsc.org/Institutions.htm

NAPNSC only accredits four schools. One of them is San Francisco's arousing Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, another is Liverpool's pride, Trinity C&S of Newburgh Indiana.

Did NAPNSC reject Bethany? (If so, how embarassing is that?) Did they eventually accredit Bethany? Or what?

 

I think you have read enough of my posts, Gus, to recognize I would not view the above in any way to be positive. Setting up a "bogus accreditor" implies an attempt at deception. As stated in an earlier post, Bethany appeals to a large Independent Baptist audience. Some IB schools, many of which hold a strong anti-secular accreditation position, have developed their own system of peer evaluation. This in no way implies that their system is the equivalent of RA, however, among the IB's, there have indeed been sincere efforts at establishing and maintaining a level of academic quality.

 

Could you please list some of these IB peer evaluation systems that assure academic integrity? Does Bethany submit itself to the scrutiny of any of these systems?

 

Re: Re: Bethany to seek AABC Accreditation

I am sure that if NAPNSC had accredited Bethany, we would have heard about it by now. What we can learn from this, however, is that Bethany isn’t one of the IB schools with an aversion to secular accreditation.

 

To be frank, I'm not sure of the details. My statement regarding this concept came from hearing ministers within the IB movement (in my state) speak of such a peer evaluation. Among these guys, there appears to be a perception, at least from those to whom I have spoken (mostly pastors), that their schools do well without "outside" interference. While Bethany appears to have sought outside accreditation, many of these type schools would not consider such a move.

Bethany may or may not submit to such scrutiny. I don't know.

 

Re: Re: Bethany to seek AABC Accreditation

With the continued failure of NAPNSC to attain USDoE recognition (if this is the right wording) Bethany decided to withdrew its application and pursue recognized accreditation, hence the AABC pursuits. Bethany is looking around. They are aware AABC does not accredit above the undergraduate level. I continue to hope Bethany will again try TRACS or look to DETC. I do believe Bethany will attain recognized accreditation someday.

 

Now, now, boys. Mustn't question, mustn't doubt. All is sweetness and light. Such sensitive persons couldn't possibly do anything questionable. Only cold, cruel, vulgar, heartless persons could criticize anything advocated with such exquisite holy delicacy. Why, with such refinement, perhaps St Regis could use an institution like this and its apologists to shut out the crude carping of the thoughtless rabble.
"Everything is beautiful, in its own way..." (singing, aimlessly).

 

While this is certainly true and I certainly support the separation of church and state, I have to say I don't ever recall Bethany taking such a stance. I think they know many who do, do so to avoid accountability so they can set up bogus institutions granting worthless degrees and their claim to not need "outside interference" is simply a con game. At least this is my opinion. Bethany is fiercely independent in thought and actions and is very defensive when it comes to its legitimacy and validity to operate and grant degrees. They claim to be state licensed and approved and may, off and on in the past, thought this sufficient.

 

May I add a Cumberland Presbyterian Pastoral "AMEN!"