Berne University International Graduate School

Rich, Gert & Humbug,

thank you for the information. Very informative. I contacted Berne, and the most recent e-mail, I would like to share with you. This was based on my decline to participate based on Accreditation:

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Dear Julian:

I can certainly appreciate your apprehension based on the pieces of information you've gleaned through your research.

I do know that many years ago there was a problem in Oregon because of a Berne graduate whose political agenda caused major problems with someone in a powerful Educational agency in Oregon..but I have never heard anything about our graduates having to be concerned with fines, imprisonment or the like.

Considering our students are eligible for Title IV Federal Funds because the US Department of Education has determined we meet or exceed all US standards begs the question...how could our graduates be at risk of fines, imprisonment etc? I do have a letter from the US Department of Education that corroborates our being eligible for federal funds if you would like to see it.

The Canadian government has also determined Berne Unviersity students from Canada are eligible for federal loans in their country (through the provinces)..this is also available if you would feel more comfortable seeing it.

Regarding the University of the West Indies....apparently one of the 6 regional accrediting agencies in the US uses them as a source for acknowledging degrees from other universities in that part of the world. We recently were made aware of this and are in the process of contacting them to have them acknowledge our degrees when need be.

I would ask that you check with your state to determine what they think about a Berne Degree before finalizing your decision. The agencies in the US that determine the worth of an International Degree have thus far accepted all Berne Degrees as being equivalent to any in the US...and would be happy to provide you with an email address for some of these students.

Lastly, we are in the process of obtaining regional accreditation (Middle States) because this is a lengthy process that can take a year or more..I didn't even bother mentioning it during our conversations because I didn't want to suggest something that had not yet occured.

No matter what your decision though, I wish you every success in your academic pursuits, as well as in your personal life. It was a pleasure assisting you and I will pass along your remarks to Lynnette as well.

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Any comments??

For me, why the Middle States Accreditation?

For Gert,

could you please ask your brother to contact me, at his convenience of course, regarding his experience at Berne and how the degree fared or will fare amongst other schools.

[email protected]

I am most familiar with Berne's residency program on the island (sounds fantastic)!

Thanks again for "everyones" patience, research into the matter and expert tutelage.

Sincerely,
Julian

 

Oh my,

pardon me Gert, you are right, that msg was for Humbug (sorry about that).

Yes, I concur with you, why Middle States and not the New England Association, due to their geographic location?? I shall ask

Take care and thank you once again!!

Jules

 

Hi again,

I'll pass along your e-mail to him so he can respond at his convenience.

BH

 

Good afternoon Humbug,

could you please forward my e-mail to your brother so that I may gain additional insight into Berne University?

[email protected]

Thanks,
Jules

 

Hi, Jules.

Let me offer my 2 cents:

1. You made the right decision to eliminate Berne from consideration. Don't go back on it... you'll never have to defend a degree from Capella or Touro, but you'll spend your life defending Berne.

2. I don't know the situation now, but as of several years ago, Berne was a tiny one-room office in New Hampshire. Their St. Kitts "Campus" is now some rented rooms at some other school building there. (It used to be a motel, until they got ridiculed for a picture on their site with a vinyl banner hung over the side of the hotel.)

3. The regionals do not permit nor appreciate schools who have not yet reached candidacy status with them saying anything about seeking regional accreditation. I'd be willing to make a small wager that Berne hasn't done a damn thing about applying for accreditation other than, perhaps, spending the $100 or whatever it costs to get the application packet. I can't imagine any way on God's green earth that they'd ever qualify... and the "We're considering/we're applying/we're in discussions with a regional accreditor" is one of the most common forms of millspeak out there.

Berne also won Dr. Steve Levicoff's extremly not coveted (by mill owners) "Degree Mill of the Month" award several years back... and Dr. Levicoff, who has testified on degree mills as an expert witness, has developed 75 objective criteria on which he judges schools, so his "stamp of non-approval" is pretty meaningful and objective.

Berne somehow managed to qualify through a loophole for finaicial aid. They are not and never have been accredited by any of the regionals in the US, and yet their main office, from which they answer the phones and support their students is in the US.

Any time you have a school that claims to be somewhere other than where its main offices are, or a school primarily located in the US claiming offshore accreditation, almost without exception, you're looking at a degree that you'll spend the rest of your life defending.

Particularly in your intended area of study, I strongly recommend that you consider only regionally accredited schools... and if you're considering a doctoral degree in psychology, you may also want to seek out a school that, in addition to RA, also has APA accreditation. The only school I know of at present that offers a DL program and has APA accreditation is Fielding Institute, which has generally been pretty highly regarded.

Hope this helps.

 

Combining the IHU listing with successful evaluations of their degrees would be a powerful message. They imply these evaluations have been done. Are they so inept at marketing and promotion that they don't know how to use this combination? Or is it not so?

Until more is known, Berne remains an expensive and difficult proposition. (A month straight for residency?) And the end result may or may not be a degree the graduate can use. Err on the side of caution.

Rich Douglas

 

Is it possible that Middle States is the regional association responsible for accreditation of foreign schools in St. Kitts?

I seem to remember that each Regional is responsible for a specific list of countries...

 

Middle States is responsible for Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Panama. So it's not as ridiculous as I first thought.

 

Once again, my response to Berne's latest remarks:

Berne degrees are currently illegal for use in the state of Oregon. NOW, not years ago. The penalties are set out by statute. All of this information is available on the Oregon ODA website. In addition, Mr. Contreras of the ODA discussed his thinking on Berne in his online interview on the Chronicle of Higher Education's distance education webpage several months ago. That transcript is still available in the Chronicle's archives, I believe.

1. The United States Department of Education is not in the business of evaluating foreign educational systems or the academic quality of individual foreign schools. Regarding Title IV programs, the USDoEd is only concerned that the foreign school have the local equivalent of accreditation (whatever that is), and that it agree to some requirements concerning how the student loan funds are handled and distributed.

2. Eligibility to participate in the Title IV program (federal student loans) implies absolutely nothing about the legality of use of the degrees in particular jurisdictions (like Oregon), nor does it suggest that employers and state licensing boards are bound to recognize and accept the degrees.

The involvement of the University of the West Indies apparently derives from the practices outlined in the Lisbon Convention, the text of which is available online.

Signatories to this agreement agree to accept foreign degrees issued in signatory nations **IF** they are equivalent to local degrees. If there is doubt about whether a foreign degree is equivalent (as there obviously is with Berne), the following practices are prescribed:

1. If a country has a university QA system analogous to American accreditation, that agency must make the details of its evaluation process known to the inquiring party.

Seeing as how Berne claims to possess St. Kitts' accreditation, which obviously implies that St. Kitts has an accreditation system, Mr. Contreras' office seems to have made inquiries with the St. Kitts education ministry. Apparently without response.

2. In the case of universities located in countries lacking any local QA oversight mechanism, the prescribed procedure is to poll regional universities whose standard is unquestioned, and get the local opinion of the questioned school.

I believe that's how the University of the West Indies figures into this. If one assumes that despite its claims, St. Kitts doesn't really have a credible accreditation system, then to be fair to Berne the inquiring parties might use the second procedure as well, making inquiries of the regional universities.

It isn't surprising that an application from a Caribbean school would be made to Middle States. Middle States' region includes Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands. Hence it would be the logical regional accreditor for a school located (at least theoretically) in St. Kitts.

But regional accreditation has a pre-accreditation category called candidacy. Candidacy means that the accreditor has examined the applicant and decided that its administration and planning are such that it has a reasonable chance of achieving accreditation standards within a reasonable time frame. Candidacy for accreditation is not accreditation, but it is official recognition that the applicant is legitimate, reasonably credible and that it has a chance.

Significantly, candidacy lasts for longer than a single year. I believe that up to five years of candidacy is typical. And since candidacy is itself the result of an initial evaluation process, it takes time to achieve as well.

But merely planning to seek regional accreditation, or being in conversations with the accreditors, means absolutely nothing. I plan to win a Nobel Prize too. I might even decide to e-mail the Nobel Prize committee to make sure that they don't overlook me. But I don't think that anyone should treat me as being the equivalent of a Nobel Prize winner on that basis.

If Berne succeeds in achieving candidacy, let alone full accreditation with Middle States, I will gladly change my opinion of it. But I am also willing to bet that candidacy is never granted.

 

Good Afternoon Chip, Gert, Bill & Rich,

the plethora of information received regarding the accreditation process has enabled me to broaden my horizons on research into institutions!

I am not going with Berne for my PhD, that decision has been made. Each and everyone of you have provided not only information, but the direction on where to go and why!!

A PhD is Health Sciences is exactly what I need for securing a position in the Courts or at a hospital. Most of the psychology doctorates have a stringent residency req'mt that I am unable to fulfill being in the Military and more specifically, am leaving the country late June for Saudi Arabia.

The statements and questions regarding Middle States Accreditation vice New England was broached to Berne by me. This was the response:

Dear Julian:

You are most thorough...so much so..that I may be at risk of being replaced by you.

I honestly feel you would be best served by contacting our Provost Dr. Charles Knisley who is presently outside the country doing some projects for the university...he is far more up to date on issues such as our accreditation efforts with Middle States, the requirements of getting accredited by The Ministry of Education in St. Kitts et al. Although he has limited internet access I am confident he would welcome the opportunity to "discuss" your concerns about the university...his email is [email protected]

I remain available to do whatever I might to resolve these issues to your satisfaction as well, and I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my email.


My intention is to contact this individual and share the response in this forum. I figure this research or indepth info will be extremely useful to others seeking a DL University. I will keep the group posted.

Thank you again, everyone!!

Jules

 

Being in the military you should probably look strongly at Touro's PHD in Health Science. According to posts bu others the cost to you would approach zero.

 

Thanks Mike,

cocur 100%, I have already contacted the institution and am waiting for the info!

I think Touro will be the one (smile).

Jules