Azteca University and Nicaraguan Central University

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Mar 25, 2021.

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  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Validation can be problematic for local recognition. For doctoral programs, some evaluation services want to see copy of dissertation and copy of university catalog for consideration. If you complete your doctorate with a private company X in Africa, you will not be able to provide a dissertation signed by UNEM faculty. Some even want to see records of defense. At least in Europe, you will have a hard time getting this degree recognized because the barriers of being a validated degree.
    I went through this process in Spain, I noticed UNEM being listed in the recognized list of Universities but I also noticed all the above requirements that might make it difficult to get a validated degree recognized. I got recognized a credential from Canada and Australia but the same would apply to Costa Rica.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
  2. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    Not all services expect that, though. It depends a lot on 1) the evaluator and 2) the nature of the validation agreement.

    I'm waiting on some answers from various NACES members about additional requirements for PhDs or DBAs (aside from transcript + degree) and am only looking at agreements that involve both the diploma and transcript from the awarding university. All I need is one, and there are 19 to work with (18 excluding WES, who will probably find some fault in any foreign degree I would pursue because they are, in my opinion, snooty watchdogs).
     
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  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Those that search will find, I am sure you will find the right evaluation service for your doctorate. As people stated here, adjunct salaries are so low that it just makes no sense to spend 50K to make 2K a course. When I worked as an online adjuncts (IT), half of the adjuncts had doctorates from places that sometimes you cannot even pronounce, it seems that many online schools just check if you have the NACES evaluation certificate and care care less the name of the school as the salaries are so low so they figure that it is good enough if you hold a doctorate that can be used for their own accreditation.
     
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Titulo proprio - This term is usually used to refer more specifically to some university rank distinctions, usually postgraduate, whose approval has not been regulated by the government of the country in which the academic institution that issues it is located.
    UCN was founded in 1998. It is nationally accredited and recognized by the Ministry of Education of the Republic of Nicaragua via the Council of National Universities (Consejo Nacional de Universidades).
    UCN degrees appear official.
     
  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Yep, UCN degrees are definitely legitimate. However, they've managed to get themselves into hot water with WES. Considering that UCN is officially recognized by the highest authority in its home country, validating its legitimacy, they must've really messed up to get blacklisted by WES, and the only thing we can see as a connection relates to some of the partnerships they've made.
     
  6. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    If I recall correctly, UCN has a medical school among others as part of the UCN system in Nicaragua.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    WES is the main evaluation service used for credit transfer and used for by many universities as the only evaluation service when evaluating prospect faculty credentials. UCN and Azteca are not doing anything different from the University of Liverpool and other British and Australian schools but at a very low price. It is not very convenient for me as a dean of X American University if WES starts evaluating credit from UCN as equivalent as American credit because I lose money. An an american student, it makes more sense for me to get credit from Azteca/UCN and then transfer it to X American University to save money so this puts Azteca/UCN in competition with American schools, the link here is WES and this entity is the one that decides what is valid and what is not valid.

    There is also the online PhD market, if UCN/Azteca works to be an adjunct in the US, there is no point to get a PhD from Capella, Walden, etc as they seem to be equivalent when it comes to value but the latter cost 50K+. If I don't care about the UCN/Azteca label and just care about getting work as an adjunct, the UCN/Azteca is good enough but again the link here is WES as many universities only accept WES reports for adjunct work.

    WES has power mainly in the academic industry. Other NACES evaluation services have no conflict with UCN/Azteca because their evaluations are mainly used for employment purposes and not for credit transfer.

    Excelsior used to accept WES for foreign credit transfer and now only accepts ECE. Obviously this kind of decisions hurts WES. It is not known to me why Excelsior dropped them but it is obvious that there is a reason for this.

    As some stated before, just search for another option and forget about WES. For employment purposes other than some academic jobs, WES is not mandatory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  8. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Exactly, and I question what WES is doing.

    I've had suspicions about this as well.

    Didn't know that. Very good info.

    Most of our focus is on education so at least in that regard WES will probably remain a part of the conversation, plus the way schools tend to favor them for evaluations keeps them relevant.
     
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I have read some things about this, and I seem to recall a website for a medical school specifically under UCN but the site was dead when I tried to reach it. I know that they have a deal with a medical school called Texila American University.
     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, they do have power. I did a search for academic jobs with WES as a keyword and 117 jobs require a WES report.

    https://www.higheredjobs.com/search/advanced_action.cfm?OnlyTitle=0&Keyword=WES

    I searched the word NACES and this appeared more than 500 times

    https://www.higheredjobs.com/search/advanced_action.cfm?OnlyTitle=0&Keyword=NACES

    The conclusion is that WES has power but an evaluation report from any NACES service has more power so concentrate on the ones that take any NACES report if you follow the foreign cheap route.
     
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  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    WES and ECE for many years were the leading dominating among others.
    In don't know about WES CA. I did encounter in the past Universities that accepted only ECE and WES reports preferred these services.
    Many NACES evaluation services are used by Universities for academic placements, credit transfer and obviously for work and immigration purposes.
    Some are well respected charter members of NACES such as IERF or ICD etc etc.
    There are many instances were professional or specialty accreditation agency has a branch that evaluate credits for transfer in to US programs.

    For example if one wants to transfer in to NYU
    A number of agencies can provide this service. See list of acceptable independent foreign degree credential evaluation agencies. Although any of these approved agencies are acceptable, NYU Steinhardt recommends World Education Services (WES).
    https://www.eatrightpro.org/acend/students-and-advancing-education/information-for-students/education-and-credentialing-requirements-for-those-with-foreign-degrees

    Columbia University appears using only WES.

    https://sps.columbia.edu/admissions/master-degree-applicants/application-requirements
     
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    If everything fails you can always go with California University FCE, https://www.cufce.org/aboutus.htm

    They issue equivalency degree looking like degrees, they are registered in California as a high school and with this authority issue equivalency degree certificates. They seem to be the type of place that can be very flexible as long as your credit card clears.

    I think for employment purposes any foreign evaluation service is fine. The issue comes when you want to use it for immigration, government jobs, credit transfer, university jobs and admissions.

    It would be very dangerous if a person with a PhD from a degree mill in Psychology decides to do a post doctoral program in clinical psychology and then have this individual working at a hospital or a degree mill PhD in Medical Sciences working at a lab, etc.

    Also, if Master propio degrees were evaluated as RA, they could be used for admissions into a PhD which is not the case in Spain.

    As for Azteca PhDs, as these degrees are not valid in Mexico for teaching then it makes no sense if they are valid to teach in the US. If the purpose is just to give you a nice looking award to hang up your wall, then it is fine as long as it is not used in places where degree that is certified by an authority of education is required.

    As for Nicaragua UCN PhDs, one would need to do research in Nicaragua and figure if this credential is good for an academic position over there. I couldn't find a single Nicaraguan professor with an UCN PhD, one also must wonder why allow a PhD from UCN to work in the US when they cannot work in Nicaragua. I am not an expert in Nicaraguan law but there must be a reason why academics over there dont do this degree.
     
  13. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Azteca seems to focus heavily in Arab countries. The PhD is valued. The faculty I searched for and found in the International program seem to be qualified. No question it is Proprio since the diplomas say so. The issue for use would seem to me to be that you are on far more solid ground with an EdD since that is what they are authorized by SEP to issue.

    A guess would be that many simply want the PhD after their name and from a school that when searched shows up as the equivalent of accredited and, with branch campuses and a medical school, some credibility.

    I wouldn't want one of their PhDs simply because they are not part of their SEP approved offering.
     
  14. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Honestly, who cares? A very good portion of PhD programs don't require a Masters for admission at all. Walk in with a bachelors, earn a masters along the way. Showing up with a Masters may, and I say may, result in some credit transfer. That's it.

    So if the propio can be evaluated for credit, why would it matter if those credits transferred into a PhD program?

    The fact is you've thrown around a lot of "dangers" here that, while I agree are not good practice, are probably not nearly as dire as you're making them out to be. The odds of a completely unqualified person walking into a job with all bogus credentials, these days, is rare. What is much more common is the (grandfathered) masters psychologist getting the questionable PhD or the fully licensed physical therapist getting the sketchy DPT because it was cheaper than the one with bulletproof accreditation.

    These problems that frequently pop up around these boards simply do not happen in real life where a complete fraud shows up and begins working in a hospital with a degree mill diploma. When a fraud does show up in a hospital and just start working it is typically without any credential or with fraudulently claimed credentials from real schools and these tend to get taught. I have never seen someone with a PhD in "Medical Sciences" working in a lab. The required degree for that field is "medical technology" and it's not a PhD level thing. Nor is it a field where a PhD would likely be seen as particularly beneficial. Even if someone did wander in with an unaccredited PhD, odds are they are otherwise qualified to do the work.

    This idea that some random UCN PhD is going to somehow walk into a hospital and start breaking things is pure and utter nonsense.

    As for not finding a single professor in Nicaragua with a PhD from UCN...

    I am finding references to universities and colleges in Nicaragua that don't have websites. Some that do do not list their faculty. So I am doubtful you have sufficient information to say that academics in Nicaragua don't "do" degrees from there.

    UCN, for all of the cross border nonsense, is an indisputably legitimate school within Nicaragua.
     
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  15. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Of course the EdD does not have as much appeal because of the perception of non academics. Look at all of the stupidity from "Social Media (FB) experts" criticizing Jill Biden for being called "Dr." because she is not a PhD or MD, and because "the EdD is the easiest doctorate to get". There are many reasons to criticize Biden but this ain't one. Usually the critics don't have doctorates but consider themselves subject matter experts on all things doctoral.
     
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  16. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    I mentioned in the Master Propio ENEB forum that it is safe to assume that all of Azteca/UCN dual programs and UCN alone do all of their foreign evaluation credentials through SpanTran as I believe they have a partnership with them for all of their degrees issued to US citizens. Some institutions will not accept SpanTran and so would likely need to get it evaluated by another NACES evaluator. I'm working on my PhD from them right now and I know what to expect as this is more for personal development than anything else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Another Canadian evaluation service that refuses to evaluate UCN:

    Post-Secondary institutions that cannot be evaluated by ICES:
    Universidad Central de Nicaragua
    https://www.bcit.ca/ices/country-specific-information/

    The same evaluator about Spanish Titulo propio:
    Please be advised that ICES does not assess Titulo Propio credentials. ICES will only assess Titulo Oficial credentials that are listed on the Registro de Universidades, Centros y Titulos (RUCT) website.


    They seem to be a risky proposition for those that live in Canada. ICAS, ICES and WES won't evaluate. You only have Quebec left.
     
  18. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I did not look for websites, I did a search on linkedin for profiles in Nicaragua with the words "doctorado" and "Universidad Central de Nicaragua"

    https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/people/?geoUrn=["105517145"]&keywords="universidad central de nicaragua" doctorado&origin=FACETED_SEARCH


    Only 5 people showed up but most worked or work there but have a doctorate from a different place. There is one student only.


    Normally you would expect to see people graduated from this University with PhDs. The fact that not even a single one shows up, it is not a good indicator. If you can find a more scientific way to do a sample let me know.

    Most graduates from this school with PhDs are not in Nicaragua. You would expect that a regular program would attract more students in a local place.

    Why people from Nicaragua don't go there? I don't know, but all I am saying this might give an indication that there is a reason for this.
     
  19. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    People from Nicaragua are not going there is probably for a multitude of reasons. One is that since Nicaragua is a poor country anyway, many do not complete degrees from there and they may not have as much government assistance, scholarships, and easy access to loans like we do in the US, UK, and Canada. Another reason is that their education system is likely being marketed to us international students more so than their local students. We are probably bringing in the most money to the school.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    People in Spain don't look down on propio degrees at all considering how many Spaniards have them, and considering how many Spanish schools offer them, and then because a number of schools in Spain that offer official degrees also offer propios including UAB which is arguably the top University in Spain. Only people outside Spain (particularly North Americans) seem to have a problem accepting them, first because of the price, and second because of the "Not Invented Here" Syndrome.

    Some of these evaluators, both American and Canadian, are being ridiculous and--dare I say--ethnocentric to dismiss a degree classification that is culturally understood and accepted by an entire country and many of it neighbors.
     

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