Azteca University and Nicaraguan Central University

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Mar 25, 2021.

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  1. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    Wow seems like UNEM has increased prices notably. If I remember it correctly they used to be way cheaper.
    In Germany a degree from UNEM won´t be accepted because one of the first hits on Google is the following article:

    https://www.spiegel.de/lebenundlernen/uni/umstrittene-titel-professoren-und-doktoren-made-in-costa-rica-a-597705.html
     
  2. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    You can still find UNEM PhDs for around USD 5-6k if you look for validation agreements. There are at least two sites I know of that offer these arrangements plainly, then some more that say so but won't respond to me.

    True enough, but its all about use cases. If someone gets a legitimate Doctorate from any school, it can aid with immigration, help you work in schools that are ranked similarly (I'm sure an outfit like UNEM would bring some American PhD holder from Azteca on as an adjunct, at a minimum), open at least some doors, and make you appear more credible at first glance (with the PhD postnominal or the Dr. title). I doubt anyone here is serious about pursuing a cheap doctorate from [unranked school in Central and South America] because they want to teach full-time without either extensive teaching experience or contacts who owe them some humongous favors.
     
  3. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Probably somewhat like University of Phoenix, Trident University, Capella, and Grand Canyon University. You are going there to earn a legitimate doctorate, perhaps give yourself a career boost, but not necessarily with the illusion that you will secure a tenured faculty position at a major university.

    [QUOTE="Thorne, post: 550757, member: 39921"
    True enough, but its all about use cases. If someone gets a legitimate Doctorate from any school, it can aid with immigration, help you work in schools that are ranked similarly (I'm sure an outfit like UNEM would bring some American PhD holder from Azteca on as an adjunct, at a minimum), open at least some doors, and make you appear more credible at first glance (with the PhD postnominal or the Dr. title). I doubt anyone here is serious about pursuing a cheap doctorate from [unranked school in Central and South America] because they want to teach full-time without either extensive teaching experience or contacts who owe them some humongous favors.[/QUOTE]
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That doesn't tell me what their policy is, if any, and therefore what they'll likely do in the future. I was going to say I have an acquaintance there I can ask, but it looks like he moved on to a different organization.
     
  5. datby98

    datby98 Member

    Haha, even Azteca itself will not hire an Azteca PhD holder in their faculty teams?:p
     
  6. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    Do many schools hire their own alumni to be professors? I've had numerous professors say that this is a big, albeit unspoken, no-no in academia unless you're in a top school
     
  7. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Apollos University does it almost exclusively. There I think even the janitor has an Apollos Doctorate, lol.
     
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I miss the days when South African Ph.Ds were all the rage around here.
     
  9. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    That is actually a good sign as someone else noted. Generally, a bunch of ingrown faculty is not a good thing. One of their faculty I looked at has an Austrian doctorate in Psychology (in their International program). They are after all equivalent of accredited through to the EdD so would need to meet SEP standards.

    The other thing is that having seen some of their application material they are VERY clear and above board (transparent) on the whole RVOE vs Grado Proprio issue and repeatedly explain. In my mind, no applicant can say they did not know.

    Datby98 said:
    "Haha, even Azteca itself will not hire an Azteca PhD"
     
  10. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This is a bit old and just an article from a magazine. If we were to discard schools because negative articles, we should rule out Capella, NCU, Walden, etc. Most online for profit schools have bad press here and there.

    UNEM is recognized at least by the Canadian Revenue Agency, this might be good enough to at least some money back from taxes:

    https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/deductions-credits-expenses/line-32300-your-tuition-education-textbook-amounts/recognized-educational-institutions-outside-canada/universities-higher-educational-institutions.html#wb-auto-5

    Azteca is not in the list.
     
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Maybe, but it is becoming very difficult to get even online adjunct positions. As there are plenty of people already with PhDs from American online schools, I would think that a PhD from Azteca or UNEM would be second or third in the list. If the prospect faculty has good professional and teaching experience, maybe the PhD from Azteca might work but it would be easier to get a DBA or PhD from an American school bite the bullet of cost but at least you know it can be used with no problems. From the time perspective, there are plenty of American programs that can be completed in 3 years part time which is similar to what UNEM or Azteca offer.

    In Canada at least, a PhD from Azteca or UNEM would need to probe some professional and Canadian experience and some local professional memberships (e.g. Engineers, Psychology, ect) before being considered for part time teaching. It is feasible but local credentials would be preferred most of the time.

    In Canada, there are some schools that offer online PhDs and DBAs such as Athabasca and Yorkville, these are expensive programs but at least would give you a fair chance for adjunct work.

    As you pointed out, these schools seem to be targeting people in Africa that might be more interested in using the credentials for immigration visas to Europe, Canada or the US so for this purpose, these degrees fit the bill.
     
  13. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    It might be useful to compare the offerings on this page

    https://aztecauniversity.com/index.php/doctoral/

    with the scope of Azteca's RVOE here (enter 'Mexico' for state and 'Azteca' for school name and click on 'buscar'.)

    https://www.sirvoes.sep.gob.mx/sirvoes/mvc/consultas

    My understanding is that it's acceptable for legally established schools in Mexico to offer degree programs without RVOE, but these programs are unaccredited in the Mexican context and are roughly equivalent to the state-licensed but unaccredited US programs. In both cases, some of the programs might conceivably have some credibility on a case-by-case basis, but many/most probably don't.

    Problems arise when people confuse Latin American-style programmatic accreditation with US-style institutional accreditation. So if a school has RVOE in one or more subject, it appears in the reference books and is said to be "GAAP". So Americans simply assume that if the programs that they want to enroll in are coming from accredited universities, then they must be somehow equivalent to domestic US or Canadian accredited programs if only at the low end.

    But it isn't just a question of rankings. It's more fundamental than that.
     
  14. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    I would say the Grado Proprio are not equivalent to a US unaccredited school degree in the sense that with the Spanish or Mexican school you are actually earning a degree from a school that in the case of Azteca has degree granting oversight equivalent to accreditation to the doctoral level (albeit EdD) and are offering PhD under their Proprio authority. They have experience with doctoral level education and presumably hire faculty to facilitate that. Azteca seems to target the Arab world, Europe, etc.

    A US unaccredited school has no accreditation or oversight that ensures they even understand degrees at the appropriate level.
     
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes, you got it. To make things more complex, Nicaragua has not regulated degree level granting by private Universities so technically a private University can grant any level they want. As I said before, people in Nicaragua probably know which schools are credible for doctoral programs but the law allows any private university to grant doctorates.


    For this reason, Azteca partners with UCN. Azteca knows that their PhDs are not accredited in Mexico but by giving you an UCN degree, technically the second one is accredited but mainly because the law in Nicaragua allows it.

    It is a common practice in Mexico to give non accredited diplomas for professional education by properly registered Universities but not very common to give non accredited doctorates as they are pretty much useless in Mexico as they cannot give you access to a doctoral license that is required to teach.

    As the world education system is complex, for an American, they would just look at the University and level of education that are able to grant and Azteca would pass the test to grant PhDs and some NACES services might recognize while others not. The same in other countries, in some places they just check for listings in recognized University handbooks and Azteca is there so it would pass the check mark.

    In few words, the combo Azteca and UCN might work for some but one would better check their local requirements just to make sure that satisfies their needs.

    I personally think the Azteca, UCN combo might work better for someone looking for a masters degree in a different area just for personal improvement or extra credits to teach another subject as an adjunct. Normally, most people pay more attention to your PhD than a masters, so these degrees might work for some people for some purposes.
     
  16. manuel

    manuel New Member

    I would like to add that if you just want a part-time/adjunct faculty position, a Master's degree should be enough. Also, based on my experience with a CC, the adjunct faculty with a doctoral degree would make just 60 dollars more in total for the entire course. For me, that is not worth the time, money, and work that you need to put into a doctoral degree. I can see a degree from an unranked university in Mexico as a way to get higher positions in a company but not a career path to a full-time faculty.

    There are better universities in Mexico for getting a Ph.D. (Example: Ph.D. UPAEP ). Nevertheless, the price is around 20K as a minimum and I don't think it is worth it considering that there is no room for faculty positions.
     
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree, as the hourly rate for adjunct is so low, it is hard to justify a high investment in your doctorate. Many people in this forum just want the PhD title for personal fulfillment and to teach a class or two a year just for personal development.

    I would just make sure that the Azteca or UCN doctoral program passes the NACES evaluation service if you want to use it in the US. I hold Canadian degrees, I was always required to provide a NACES service evaluation report when applying for adjunct positions in the US. If you can get this certificate, I would say it might be worth getting the doctorate Azteca/UCN for 5K or similar school that can give you access to a NACES evaluation certificate. Some schools accept certificates from AICE.
    US immigration is a bit more flexible and accept not only NACES but you would need to figure out what immigration needs to grant you a Visa.
     
  18. manuel

    manuel New Member

    I agree. Even without the evaluation if you are not trying to get a faculty position. The 5K is worth it by just getting a better job or getting higher positions in your company. But, it would look very weird if a person has a degree from a Latin university without knowing Spanish. That is a question that will always come up in an interview.
     
  19. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Similar principles exist with foreign medical schools. These range from the usual Carribean medical schools to advertisements I am now seeing for medical schools in Poland and I believe Lithuania targeting Americans. They may be accredited and, in the case of Poland or Lithuania, respected but they come with some significant hurdles and limitations (can be overcome after residency by having got a residency).

    The European medical school options tend to be less expensive but schools like Ross (owned by Devry) are very expensive. Ross's veterinary program has a 350,000 price tag. There are grads of Caribbean med schools who do not match for residency and owe a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

    Make sure the degree will meet your needs and you understand obstacles. NCU, UNEM, Azteca may not be expensive but they will take a chunk of your life and your family's life as an investment.
     
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I just noticed that the only doctorate that is approved by the minister of education of Mexico is not in the list of international offerings (PhD in Education). This just confirms that the international operation is not targeted towards Mexicans. The local campus wants to keep the PhD in Education that probably costs way more than the 5K and sell the cheap doctorates overseas that are not accredited.
    It is a bit similar than the concept of Spanish propio degrees, official degrees are expensive and propio degrees cheap because are taught by private companies that cut cost by different means.

    It is not illegal for Azteca to grant non accredited PhDs but they know there is no local market for these qualifications so these are exported overseas that might bite the offer.
     

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