ASU to offer FREE 15-credit certificate in Global Management & Entrepreneurship

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Maniac Craniac, Feb 23, 2022.

  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Would it be acceptable (not considered deceptive) to just take the free cert and say something like "Graduate-level Certificate" instead of "Graduate Certificate" on one's resume?

    Sorry if it's a silly question. :confused:
  2. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    I personally would list it as whatever the title of the certificate is in my certifications/professional development section. If I wanted to use it for graduate credit, I would use the ASU certificate title. It could go either way as many put certificates in their degree sections of their resume. How it is worded may not matter that much since it is a diploma/certificate and not a degree.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  3. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I don't think these courses are at the graduate level. They're targeted at entrepreneurs, women, those with barriers to formal schooling or trouble getting into the workforce, etc.

    As cacoleman1983 says, if I were taking this program, I would list it under Professional Development as a Certificate from ASU, similar to how I list(ed) the Certificate for the Study of Capitalism I did at Arkansas State.

    I still feel a bit uncomfortable with the idea of people with advanced education taking these courses, since we're not the target demo. It seems like it's taking away an opportunity for someone with fewer options who could really benefit from the opportunity, especially given the philanthropy going into making it free. Others may not feel the same way, though.
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's silly at all. It's the sort of truthful hairsplitting people in all walks do. E.G. someone says they completed some "doctoral-level courses" - it's an indicator of what they actually did - some courses, no complete Doctoral degree.

    Many years ago, when I signed up for a credit management program (completed 1974) I was told "these are University-level courses in credit." They were, actually. Snail-mail, assignments marked by the University, in-person proctored exams each year. But the diploma was awarded by the Credit Institute, which is not part of the University. So, I guess I took University-level courses, but they were non-degree and I didn't graduate from the University. "University" and "University-level" are two different things.

    When I told that story here at DI years ago, somebody went further and suggested emphatically that I could say I graduated from the Uni. and call myself an alumnus. Wrong. Dead wrong. Don't believe me? Ask them - University of Toronto. Go ahead.

    Anyway, I don't think what you're saying is wrong. And if someone says it's "misleading" they should uh... try reading it for comprehension next time.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  5. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    According to more than one article I've read, they are at the graduate level. I haven't seen ASU-Thunderbird confirm this, so it is possible that the articles are mistaken.

    For the courses to be worthy of 15 credits from ASU, this program would require a substantially greater dedication than a typical professional development certificate. I think it deserves an extra level of resumé hype.

    The program is first open to graduate students and over time will be progressively opened up to undergraduates and to people with no college. That's the way they decided to roll it out. The rationale could be that more experienced students are a better primed pool of first adopters. If so, after the original kinks are worked out, ASU-Thunderbird would be better equipped to manage the needs of others.
    sideman and Dustin like this.
  6. Courcelles

    Courcelles Active Member

    If it does result in 15 hours of transcripted graduate credit? That's more credit than is contained in most formal graduate certificates I've seen. Really, that's half a masters. Worthy of being in the education section of your CV.
  7. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    These are international management courses, so it isn't a vocational program. Whether at the graduate or undergraduate level, general management certificates aren't exactly marketable on their own. They're most valuable to people looking for a promotion or aspiring adjunct instructors who need to accumulate 18 graduate credits. If they wanted to help people without bachelor's degrees, they picked the wrong field.

    There are many non-credit MOOCS that teach content at the graduate level. Anyone can sign up. What usually happens if there's a pathway to credit is that the person has to complete additional graduate-level coursework, such as papers and projects.

    The non-credit certificate should be listed under professional development or continuing education. A for-credit certificate should be listed under education just like any other academic award.
    sideman, Maniac Craniac and Johann like this.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Whole thing tells it like it is. Great job.
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I find this statement interesting.

    "In addition, 90% of the world’s university students do not have access to the resources or recognition of top-ranked universities."

    There's often a difference in resources, particularly in the sciences and healthcare. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes for global management. The recognition part makes it sound like they're targeting graduates of no-name universities.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Moreover, given MIT OpenCourseWare, and initiatives like it, it's also kind of a whopper.
  11. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Yeah for sure.... As for cost, I meant that maybe they would mark it down for those who completed the certificate through this partnership where a charge under the $2500 down to a minimum of $1000 for administrative costs for the ASU graduate certificate would be sufficient.
  12. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I would probably just call it a Graduate certificate, honestly.

    Part of the problem is that people, and we are also guilty of this, conflate credits being awarded with credits being transferable. Those are different animals.

    The key difference between a non-credit program and a credit bearing program is not the grades or the fact that the courses can be transferred or not. It's that you can get a transcript from a school that you took this graduate level coursework. That's it. I can get a summary of coursework from eCornell for my certificate. However, I cannot call up the Cornell registrar and ask for a copy of my transcript. I don't have one there. I was never a student of Cornell University. I received a non-credit certificate from their distance learning wing.

    If Thunderbird is saying that these are graduate level courses then you're fine to call it a graduate certificate. You're even fine to say, maybe in the next line on your LinkedIn, that it is 18 credits. That those credits might not transfer? Irrelevant. Most graduate programs wouldn't accept 18 credits from another school anyway. I think Amberton only accepts a max of 12 and that is considered very generous.

    So, yeah, did that answer the question? I feel like you are having some hesitancy about calling it a grad certificate and I would say that it's fine. Graduate level is also true but they functionally say the same thing if you take credit transfer out of the equation.
    Rachel83az likes this.
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Honestly, it sounds like a word salad statement meant to sound important while conveying very little meaning.

    Sure, 90% of all university students lack the recognition of a top university because 90% of students are not attending a top university.

    We can do this with almost anything.

    90% of HR managers do not have access to the resources or recognition of a Fortune 500 company.

    So what?

    In a sense they are targeting graduates of no-name universities. And in doing so they are elevating their own name. Thunderbird is certainly not a no-name school especially around boards like this where we study this stuff regularly. For a guy who has never been to Texas (me) I also have some warm and fuzzy feelings about specific schools within the University of Texas system for the same reason.

    But if I start pulling random people off the street anywhere outside of Texas or Arizona, respectively, and ask them to name 50 top business schools do you think Thunderbird or any UT school is going to make that cut?

    All of the Ivies are going to hit the list. Then all of the elite schools that are not ivies would be on the list (Stanford, Duke, MIT etc). If you're polling some worldly folks you'll get some good international schools on that list. And then you're going to fall into a very heavily regional bias. For me, Penn State is probably on the list. I would probably also include Drexel, Temple, Fordham and a smattering of other schools. Why? Because I live in New York and these are the schools I think of as good schools. Even if I, pretending I'm not a degree nerd, decide to flex my limited knowledge of West Coast schools it's pretty much limited to...what, UCLA and USC?

    I'm just saying that while this seems like a really good program and opportunity for a lot of people this is a school, a good and very respectable school, doing what universities in this country do; punch above their weight. Thunderbird got a stack of philanthropic money to, essentially, launch a MOOC certificate and they are framing it like it will change the world and help all the lowly people with degrees from lesser schools achieve their dreams. Meanwhile, I have the sneaking suspicion that if I went out of my office and walked the halls asking who was familiar with Thunderbird, it would be pretty limited to those folks who have lived in or near Arizona. Just as if I went to Arizona and started polling people on their thoughts on Hofstra I'm probably going to get some very confused looks from a lot of people.

    Thunderbird isn't no name. But they also aren't top shelf. Nobody thinks to list Thunderbird alongside Duke, MIT, Stanford etc. But making statements like that make them sound more elite than they really are. It just plays into what feels like a lot of marketing campaign shtick going along with this. Not a bad program. But we do have to cut through the marketing BS to get to the actual product.
    sanantone and sideman like this.
  14. ArielB

    ArielB Member

    I'm actually surprised that they are running this out of Thunderbird instead of WP Carey, which is a Top 30 business school.
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I'm in the webinar. The initial offerings are graduate-level. The non-credit certificate is awarded automatically upon completion of the five courses. The graduate certificate is awarded after application and completing each course with a "B" or better. This program is targeting people with a bachelor's degree, but the graduate courses are open to those who don't have a bachelor's degree. If the courses are too challenging, they encourage you to switch to the undergraduate courses.

    Later, they plan to offer undergraduate courses that will lead to a 15-credit undergraduate certificate. The curriculum for this is different. They will also be offering an entrepreneurship bootcamp.
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  16. asianphd

    asianphd Active Member

    I attend today's intro session.
    It's graduate courses.
    Thunderbird / ASU LE Non-Credit Certificate (upon completion and past of 5 courses).
    Thunderbird / ASU AE 15 Credit Certificate (upon B or better completion of 5 courses).
    Dustin likes this.
  17. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I asked whether those without a bachelor's degree are eligible for the 15-credit graduate certificate or only the non-credit certificate.
    Answer: the non-degree certificate for sure
  18. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    There is no cost to convert courses to credits. There's only a transcript fee.
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  19. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for attending the webinar and providing useful information. It was 6:00 am my time and I ended up missing it.
  20. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    The first course will be in English. They plan to translate the courses to eight or nine additional languages throughout this year. The courses can be completed between two weeks and six months. Each course will have a mid-term and final. Even though you have to apply for the credit certificate, there isn't an "application" per se. I think the professor meant there isn't a traditional application process; it's probably a simple form one needs to fill out.

    I get the impression that all of the graduate courses in 10 languages are paid for, so this is open to everyone without restrictions. These are self-directed courses, so there aren't many administrative costs for ASU. If you pre-registered, you will eventually receive an invitation to register for the first course being offered in April.
    Maniac Craniac likes this.

Share This Page