Associate's degree with UoP or postgrad diploma with Cambridge management school?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TeacherBelgium, May 4, 2020.

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  1. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium New Member

    Hi,
    I'm hesitating between two distance learning courses and could use some feedback or insights from others.

    I have an associate's degree in Belgian law and have a postgrad certificate in management and leadership.

    I would like to do an additional 1 to 2 years of study.

    I have always been very drawn to medicine and the medical world but have always been poor at mathematical reasoning so a full on medical study would be impossible for me.

    I have a good head on my shoulders and a great ability to study large portions of subject matter though.

    Would an associate's degree in health sciences from university of the people (taking two years) be more suitable to my needs of working in the medical sector or would a postgraduate diploma in management in the social and health care be more suitable to my needs?

    I would like to be close to the medical world and play a role in it.
    Being busy with sciences and medicine without the pure mathematical approach that usually comes with it, is what I seek.

    Which of these two educational programmes would be more valued by employers?

    On a side note: I also love teaching others if that could turn the balance in one or the other direction.

    Yours kindly,
    Vincent
     
  2. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Active Member

    It might be worth seeing how much of your current associates may transfer into UoP, towards a bachelors in some health field. I’d also highly recommend looking at the degree requirements in your intended region of employment and area of health interest. Ex. an associates in nursing may open more doors than say a bachelors in health (generic). Have you spoken with (Belgian?) professionals in roles you’re interested in?
     
  3. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium New Member

    Hi,
    I have thought about transferring credits from my law associate's degree to the health and sciences bachelor's degree but there are barely any subjects that I would deem appropriate for transfer. All the courses I took during my associate's in law were either law or ethics based and also quite a few courses based on business management.

    Here in Belgium an associate's degree in health sciences doesn't exist.
    There are vocational schools that offer an associate's degree in nursing that takes 3 years. The bachelor's degree in nursing takes 4 years and is offered by a college.
    In most parts of the world where an associate's degree is offered, the associate's is 50% of the bachelor's in length and weight.
    Here in Belgium an associate's is 60 American credits (120 ECTS) while a bachelor's is 90 American credits (180 ECTS).
    While I would love to actually take an associate's degree in nursing, UoP doesn't offer that option.
    UoP is the most affordable I've come across.
    Other US colleges that offer associate's in nursing would cost me 30k$ on average. While UoP offers the health sciences associate's for like 2500$ all in.

    My goal is to work in a more parademically centered field.
    I would have loved to work in the medical field itself (special interest for oncology) but I would never be able to pass the entrance exam (med students have to take an entrance exam that is very maths centered).
    My ability to learn physics, chemistry and biology are very good. It's just that mathematics (geometry more specifically) is a problem for me.

    Basically, I have always been drawn to the medical field and kind of regret having studied for an associate's in law. I'm 24 currently and would like to still make the switch now that I'm not too old to do so. Would be amazing if I could transfer 10-20 American credits towards the bachelor's degree in health sciences at UoP but I don't see which courses they could transfer as all courses taken during my associate's in law are either business-related, ethics-related or law-related.

    Are the prospects for students with an associate's in health sciences significantly worse than for those who hold associate's in nursing?
    I would love to be able to work as a radiologist-technician. As far as I'm aware an associate's degree in health sciences could secure this kind of job for me just fine or am I missing something?

    The cambridge management and leadership school offers a postgraduate diploma in health and social care.
    This would enable me to work as a manager in social and health care.
    While I wouldn't be too keen on this job because it would involve a more administrative function and not an ability to directly be involved in medical care, I would still consider it as I want to be able to be close to the medical world and play a role in it.

    In my case, which of the mentioned options are most sound for me being able to work in a medically-related field where I could be directly responsible for medical tasks?

    The associate's in health sciences or the postgraduate diploma in health and social care?
    Which would hold more weight to employers seeking for medically trained personnel?
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Honestly, you should ask employers in Belgian health care what they like to see in applicants. Given your goals, it's their opinions that matter most here.
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    You got very good advise so far.

    My take on this is that Cambridge management school by itself is unaccredited but it has agreements with Ofqual accredited providers
    such as Qfalifi ltd and can lead to accredited qualifications that are on RQF.
    The Cambridge management and leadership school offers a postgraduate diploma in health and social care
    and claim that it's awarded by Qualifi but Qualifi site is not listing such qualification on their site.
    Similar program entry requirements are to have a relevant qualifications in the filed or 3 years of experience in the field of health and social care.

    You may want to do a top-up one year BA/BS degree?






     
  6. copper

    copper Active Member


    I'm going to say the PG dip in Health and Social Care combined with actual health care management experience either volunteer or paid would have more utility than an associates. Don't get me wrong, there are numerous high utility associates degrees in a variety of allied healthcare disciplines. Many even lead to license to practice such as nursing, x-ray technician, respiratory therapy, pharmacy technician, denturist, medical lab technician, etc. Typically, an associates in health sciences would be designed for already licensed or certified allied healthcare technicians that want a college degree or students desiring to further their education. Alternatively, a focus on degrees in disciplines like healthcare administration or management usually are at the masters level ie: Masters in Healthcare Administration (MHA). The associates degree in health science is simply too narrow a focus but perhaps a nice "feather in your cap."
     
  7. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    https://cmls-global.com/about/

    They claim to be a Qualifi Approved Learning Center, however on the Qualifi Homepage I cannot find a list of Approved Learning Centers to verify this. Can anyone help?
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This Cambridge entity is, among other things, a feeder school for OUS, The Open University of Switzerland. OUS started as a cantonally approved thingy under another name, with no Swiss Federation accreditation. IIRC it's had some press - maybe some of it here. Anyway, it seems Cambridge feeds its MBA and DBA applicants to OUS.

    Yes here we are. https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/3-universites-1-degree-fake.52648/ It looks like OUS was SMC (Swiss Management College) Open University and was re-named. Accredited by ASIC International and has a lot of double and even triple degree partnerships.

    I'm not saying anything adverse (or otherwise) about this particular case but use caution when dealing with UK providers of certs and diplomas that are of levels that would be equivalent to a certain amount of university credit. Universities are sometimes picky about which certificates they accept. Depending where you earned it, your level 5 certificate may get you what you want at some schools and be rejected at others. I remember one case of a student (not at this Cambridge school) Iwho earned a level 5 certificate in six months only to discover that the university of his choice would not accept it. They did accept level 5 certificates from other schools, which took on average two years to complete.

    Apparently all level 5 (or other) certificates are not created equal. Check with your intended university before you sign up, if you go this route.

    BTW Tom9980 - do you work for this Cambridge school?
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    BTW - my info on MBA and DBA being granted by OUS is from the Cambridge site - it's clearly spelled out in the FAQ - how do I earn MBA - DBA.
     
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And no - I'm NOT suggesting either Cambridge or OUS is doing anything illegal. Being a feeder school is not illegal and OUS, with their Cantonal authorization can award any degrees they like - legally.

    And OUS can partner up with any school it wants, to award double or triple degrees - legally, regardless of whether some old man named Johann likes it or not.
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    From what I read the DL experts state that the sphere of government recognition of ASIC accreditation is not academic, it's for UK visa - ASIC is recognized by UKVI - UK Visas & Immigration to protect international students from being ripped off and also to prevent visa mills - fake schools for the purpose to enable fraudulent student visas approvals to the UK.
    Other academic accreditation that ASIC is providing is self-granted (not illegal) and not regulated or backed by the government, any attempt to pair it with such is misleading. NARIC in the EU countries is not recognizing ASIC for the purpose of academic accreditation university degrees. Same in the US by NACES members ASIC accreditation is not considered equal to the US recognized accreditation.

    As discussed earlier in the UK there are approved/accredited qualifications in many fields and many from level 4 and higher are transferable into academic credit.
    As long as the awarding body is recognized.
    In this case both Qualifi and OTHM are recognized. While generally credits and qualifications accepted to other universities, it's not guaranteed.
    This is why OTHM for MBA top-up providing students a path with a partnered recognized university - the degree is validated and awarded by the University of Chichester. Also, they have Northampton I think as well.
    They mentioned Concordia University in Chicago.
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    There is nothing wrong with the word "earn." What's got into your head to suggest I'm deriding it? I'm not actually sure the Cambridge-whatever site used the word - but did, it's correct. I wrote the first word that came to mind. And you start defending it, which it doesn't need and telling me I have a lot to learn. Maybe, but not from you. I don't get after you for your faulty English. I know in time you'll do better and being snarky about it won't help you learn. So I shut up about it.

    There is nothing wrong with the word "earn." What's got into your head to suggest I'm deriding it? I'm not actually sure the Cambridge-whatever site used the word - but did, it's correct. I wrote the first word that came to mind. And you start defending it, which it doesn't need and telling me I have a lot to learn. Maybe, but not from you. I don't get after you for your faulty English. I know in time you'll do better and being snarky about it won't help you learn. So I shut up about it.
    There is nothing wrong with the word "earn." What's got into your head to suggest I'm deriding it? I'm not actually sure the Cambridge-whatever site used the word - but did, it's correct. I wrote the first word that came to mind. And you start defending it, which it doesn't need and telling me I have a lot to learn. Maybe, but not from you. I don't get after you for your faulty English. I know in time you'll do better and being snarky about it won't help you learn. So I shut up about it.
    There is nothing wrong with the word "earn." What's got into your head to suggest I'm deriding it? I'm not actually sure the Cambridge-whatever site used the word - but did, it's correct. I wrote the first word that came to mind. And you start defending it, which it doesn't need and telling me I have a lot to learn. Maybe, but not from you. I don't get after you for your faulty English. I know in time you'll do better and being snarky about it won't help you learn. So I shut up about it.

    So what's wrong with my telling people to be cautious with certain-level with certificates? They're the current favourite racket with less-than-wonderful schools in the UK. Unapproved schools can't issue British degrees - if they do, somebody goes to the pokey. Many schools, some good some bad, offer certificates that are supposed to help you get advanced standing in University. I was suggesting people be careful and make sure their intended certificate is one which will get them admission to the University of their choice. I stand by that advice.

    I don't need your comments on ASIC. I know what it is and what it isn't. The Cambridge entity is ASIC accredited and has to be, as it likely enrols students from outside the UK. OUS is accredited by ASIC International. That's OK - their choice. ASIC points out that the school relies on whatever degree granting authority it has from its country. In this case - a Cantonal license. That's OK too. As I was careful to point out, they're doing nothing illegal.

    Unless you've got something constructive to add, go back to your PhD studies. I still think you are somehow involved with Cambridge or OUS. Maybe you own them both - I don't care. I have no personal involvement with either entity.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry about all the repetitions. Something went wrong and no more time allowed to edit.
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    You are wrong about ASIC. ASIC is only good for international students wanting to study for a qualification in the UK, all the other extended activities the experts of Dl say are not recognized as equivalent to the US or EU, APAC, or many other countries accreditation. And it can be illegal in some countries to use, as these degrees that are accredited by ASIC are considered not properly accredited in those countries.
    If you think otherwise please provide the info.
    As far as qualifications of Cambridge (by itself not Ofqual accredited and not an awarding body on RQF) no one is arguing as long as they are awarded by Ofqual accredited recognized awarding bodies. If the diploma is of Cambridge it's not RQF or Ofqual accredited/recognized.
    The statement that RQF level 5 diploma is an Associate degree equivalent is partially correct, it's usually the case if there is also a level 4 earned diploma or the program includes a 2 year FT credit. Together each one may satisfy the first year and second year of university and with it be accepted to a top-up year 3 of the bachelor's degree. And it's not 100% guaranty some UK universities may reject.
    Many people use this route to complete a Bachelors degree. Just like HND to BEng etc.
    I personally don't have anything negative against Cambridge, they are resnobly prised and may help people to get a qualification, as long as the students earn RQF accredited qualifications. Also there is a competition between the awarding bodies and there is a preference for some over others.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
    Johann likes this.

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