Ashworth College

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Bob Fiske, May 26, 2005.

  1. Bob Fiske

    Bob Fiske Member

    A friend of mine is enrolled at Ashworth, a DETC accredited, PCDI entity. She was under the false impression that her credits will easily transfer to an RA school. I went to the ACE website and found no info on this school. I tried calling the school about possible ACE evals and got a tunnel vision, hard sell sales pitch.

    Does anyone know if any of Ashworth's associate degree programs have been look at by ACE? She wants to go on to a bachelor's at an RA school but I'm afraid she will be told to basically start over. I am also concerned about her future competitiveness vs RA grads. Alternatives to ACE for RA credit for her work?
  2. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    Ashworth is in fact DETC (not RA) and for that reason few RA schools will accept a direct transfer of credit -- though there are some.

    It's sad that many DETC (and other NA) schools do not properly include a statement about the transferability of their credit to RA schools. It would resolve many issues. It's not entirely fair to fault the school though -- sometimes it's the student that should have researched a little more deeply.

    What she can (and should) do is use CLEP/DANTES/etc standardized testing to validate her work. The acceptability of credit by examination is higher among RA schools than will be the acceptability of direct tranfer of her credit from Ashworth.

    There is a definate level of training issue when looking at these programs (no matter who provides them).

    Look at the Ashworth business associate for example. The material presented in Business Communication I & II is not likely to be the same as a 4-year English 101 and 102 nor is it likely to be equal to the typical BSc program requirement for business communication (which may well be upper level) -- it's valid information at the AS level though and good for an entry level employee.

    What she would need to do is convert that knowledge and skill learned at Ashworth into a level of material typical in a 4-year. ie: CLEP English General or Freshman Comp.

    That said, even if she were at local state community college getting her associate degree == in the absense of an articulation agreement between that CC and the 4-year she wanted to attend, she might find that many of her credits wouldn't transfer anyway.

    The Ashworth associate degrees relate nearly to what a CC offers as an AAS (Associate of Applied Science) and many AAS program credits will not transfer to many 4-year schools because of the instructional and content levels. Even when the CC is RA.

    With the exception of specific AA/AS transfer programs and AAS programs offered by a 4-year, one should consider an associate degree (particularly an AAS) as a stand-alone credential that does have some validity even after earning a BA/BSc. (IMHO)

    This is particularly true when one earns an AAS/ASc/ASB in a business or tech field and a BA/BSc in the liberal arts. It's often the associate degree that gives employability leverage to the liberal arts grad.

    Just a few thoughts -- she should complete her associate at Ashworth if she wants to and should be proud of her accomplishment there. She can and should consider an RA assesment university (Excelsior, TESC, COSC) as an option to validate her Ashworth degree with an RA degree through testing.

    It would be fairly easy to test the CLEP Business Law immediately after taking the Ashworth C-12 business law course for example.
  3. Horatio

    Horatio New Member

    They do include the following statement on their website...

    QUESTION. Will my degree be accepted by other colleges, if I decide to further my education?

    ANSWER. Ashworth College is a nationally accredited institution, and your degree is valid certification of your achievement of knowledge in the professional program from which you have graduated. However it is up to the individual college to determine acceptance of credits received from Ashworth College.

    If you intend to transfer your Ashworth College credit to another institution, it is your responsibility to contact that institution in advance to determine if it will accept Ashworth College credit toward the program you plan to complete there.

    Ashworth is correct. They are being truthful about their accreditation and they actually go as far as to warn students to research the transferability of their degrees/diplomas before enrolling with Ashworth.
  4. Bob Fiske

    Bob Fiske Member

    I am talking to her about starting at one of the local 4 year schools and getting her AA or AS there. That would solve the whole problem, except what to do about the credit she has earned at Ashworth.

    Taking CLEP/DANTES tests is good advice. I had forgotten about that option. Thanks.

    ACE recommendations of Ashworth programs would help too, if there are any. Does anyone know?

    Are there any RA schools with Distance Ed programs that are known to be more generous in accepting DETC credit in transfer? How are Excelsior and TESC about this?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2005
  5. Horatio

    Horatio New Member

    The University of Phoenix is one RA institution that accepts DETC credit.
  6. Casey

    Casey New Member

    Here are a few RA schools that say they will accept DETC credits.....

    -Jones International

    There is a more detailed list posted here:

    However, since the list was compiled a while ago, it may not be 100% accurate today. It is still a good place to start, though.

    Regarding ACE: To the best of my knowledge, none of Ashworth's courses have been ACE reviewed. This does not mean your friend can't transfer to an RA school. It just means transferring may be a bit trickier.

    If your friend is not too deep into the program, she could always try transferring to Education Direct. They are just as affordable and flexible as Ashworth, and they have had all of their courses ACE reviewed. They are also DETC accredited and candidates for Middle States (regional) accreditation.
  7. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    I have actually done a lot of personal research into this subject, because I was very interested in enrolling in Ashworth's marketing AS program. The price is right, and the program looked good. However, there is the whole issue of transfer of credit.

    There is a list floating around the board of RA schools which will supposedly take DETC credit. It contains about 20-30 schools. That list is NOT accurate. I know, because I checked. I have come up with a short list of schools that will accept DETC-accredited DEGREES, not necessarily individual DETC credits, in transfer. They include:

    Jones International University
    City University (in Washington)
    Bellevue University
    Upper Iowa University
    Western Governors University (depends on the program)

    There are a few others. The choices are extremely limited. If you have a question as to whether an RA college will accept DETC credits, it's best to contact them directly and ask BEFORE enrolling in a DETC-accredited program.

    Ashworth College is NOT ACE-reviewed, and as far as I know, they have no immediate plans to do so. If transferability of credit is a major issue for you, best to go RA to begin with, or go with an ACE-reviewed program.
  8. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member


    To me that paragraph is entirely too brief. When they say "nationally accredited" it sounds like it is the U.S. standard. It isn't of course. At the very least the should say most 4 year schools are RA and their degrees are DETC which may itransfer to SOME RA schools. They are misrepresenting the situation by omitting important information the student is entitled to.
  9. Horatio

    Horatio New Member

    Isn't it? The DETC is approved by the U.S. Department of Education and recognised by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation. Clearly they do meet the U.S. standards for accreditation.

    I disagree. They performed their duty when they told students to check with other colleges of interest in advance about the transferability of Ashworth credits. They even tell potential students that individual colleges determine what credits they will or will not accept.

    If the students are too lazy to send an email or make a phone call to make such an inquiry then I lay the blame at the feet of the student not Ashworth.

    Since when do colleges have an obligation to give students anything beyond the truth?

    Ashworth stated:

    "Ashworth College is a nationally accredited institution, and your degree is valid certification of your achievement of knowledge in the professional program from which you have graduated."

    This is 100% CORRECT! This is absolute truth! Ashworth presented their accreditation status and the validity of their qualifications based on that status while telling potential students who are seeking to transfer credit from Ashworth to check with the target school in advance.

    Ashworth did not misrepresent anything. They told the truth and offered the correct advice.
  10. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member


    Name the top 10 U.S. schools. Are they RA or DETC? Name the top 50. RA or DETC? Top 200.... You get the point. The U.S. standard is RA although DETC has been doing a good job and making progress. They are a great alternative for schools unable to achieve RA.

    Schools owe more to their students than not to lie to them. A lot of slick and unethical salespeople do nothing more than omit important information. That is exactly what Ashworth is doing and they owe more to their prospective students.
  11. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    P.S. This is exactly what degree mills do. Does Ashworth really want to be in the same categoty as them? I would hope for more from ANY accredited school and I would think the DETC organization would too.
  12. Horatio

    Horatio New Member

    How does this change the validity of Ashworth's accreditation status? Was Ashworth mistaken when they said:

    "Ashworth College is a nationally accredited institution, and your degree is valid certification of your achievement of knowledge in the professional program from which you have graduated."

    Are they correct or mistaken in this statement?

    That may be the standard in the academic world but when it comes to accreditation itself, DETC is just as valid as RA.

    Any school that is accredited by an accrediting body approved by the US DOE and CHEA meets U.S. standards for accreditation.

    So Ashworth lied when they put the following on their website?

    "Ashworth College is a nationally accredited institution, and your degree is valid certification of your achievement of knowledge in the professional program from which you have graduated."

    Let me see if I get this straight. Ashworth is wrong because they tell potential students that they cannot guarantee the transferability of their credits so the student should check in advance with any target school the student wants to transfer the credits too?

    In other words you want the school to do the students work for them? Ashworth offered their accreditation status and warned students to check with other institutions of interest for credit transfer eligibility.

    Ashworth has told the truth. Just because they have not posted a long-winded five page article on their website about the complexities of U.S. accreditation (NA vs: RA) does not make them liars.
  13. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Come on Horatio,

    You are coming acrossed like you have an agenda or bias. Ashworth certainly has a valid U.S. accreditation. It is NOT the standard accreditation that most U.S. colleges and universities have. When they say "nationally accredited" they know most of their potential students have no idea what that means. They aren't "wrong" as you put it, but they are being misleading by giving the students a statement that is complete and lacks detailed information. Ashworth is a legitimate (as in accredited) school but they are being less than candid with the folks that need it the most. I expect more from them and every other legitimate school.
  14. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Just like pretty much all degree mills do. I ask again, does Ashworth really want to be emulating degree mills?! I would hope not!

    P.S. It doesn't take a five page story to explain their accreditation status, simply a few well written paragraphs that are accurate and detailed. At this point they are being misleading by glossing over the subject.
  15. Horatio

    Horatio New Member

    This is coming from a poster who just railed against this school and accused them of misrepresentation and outright lying without good reason to do so. Who is biased?

    How can "valid" U.S. accreditation not be the standard for U.S. accreditation?

    Either they have met the United States standards for accreditation or they have not.

    So what should NA schools do? Post long-winded multi-page articles on their website's about the complexities of U.S. accreditation (NA vs: RA)?

    Besides, they clearly explain their accreditation status which can easily be researched by any potential student:

    Maybe the real problem is with the U.S. accreditation system and how it is accepted on a two-tier basis by many RA colleges?

    This is quite detailed in my opinion:

    They have made it clear to students that they cannot guarantee that their programs will be accepted by other colleges which is true. They also offered their accreditation status which is up to date and truthful.

    Seems honest to me....

    They do explain their accreditation status:

    This is quite detailed information.
  16. Bob Fiske

    Bob Fiske Member

    Thanks to all who replied. The information was complete and very helpful.
  17. CoachTurner

    CoachTurner Member

    I'm thinking that there are more than a few RA schools in the US that won't transfer RA credit either.

    I lost over 60 RA hours into an RA school in one big swoop. Imagine that.

    It remains now, always has been, and always will be, a fact -- colleges and universities determine their own tranfer requirements. The fact that you want to transfer RA to RA makes it easier but not an obligation.

    I agree too that Ashworth has not misrepresented themselves. Imagine if someone said WalMart was misrepresenting themselves because they have no sign outside that says "we're not a car dealer".

    Maybe NYU should be required to comment on their web page that their degrees are not generally as well regarded as say Harvard or Yale degrees...

    Ashworth is required to specify what they are -- not what they are not. They state that they are DETC accredited, and they are in fact DETC accredited. DETC is recognized by the US Dept. of Education (though not by some people who post on this board) as a legitimate body. They are in fact Nationally Accredited.

    Whether it is the "standard" accreditation is also not material. They do not claim to be RA. RA isn't exactly "standard" either. Some professions have specific "standards".

    When an RA institution reports that it is accredited by the New England Association of Schools and Colleges, do we really think that prospective students know exactly what that means?

    At what point does it become a students responsibility to find out what kind of education they are buying?

    I'll say here too -- and this is only my personal opinion -- if a person enrolls at Ashworth (or Ed Direct) and believes that school is the same as local state university in terms of credibility and prestige -- that student is not ready for local state university.

    If you are going to argue as an adult student that you're prepared to undertake university level work -- then you need to be able to look up a little information about the school you are planning to attend. It's really that simple.

    If someone finds later that they didn't do enough homework to understand what they were doing -- and education is a big enough investment that one needs to understand what they are doing -- then it is certainly not the fault of the school.

    Why would anyone enroll in a degree program that they haven't explored the utility of?

    On the other hand, why would anyone think an AAS in general business from Outer Podunk Community College and Barber School would have more utility than an AAS from Ashworth College even if OPCCaBS is an RA school. As working credentials, I'm betting the Ashworth has more utility.

    Further, there is a school of thought that argues that an AA/AS from a 4-year institution is not a good thing -- it give a potential employer the impression that you dropped a four-year program and left with 2nd prize.

    I'm not an employee or student of Ashworth. I've looked at them though. I think they (and other DETC programs) have a valid place in the world of adult education. The student has some responsibilities too though and we need not let those who can't understand the system put all the blame back on the system...
  18. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Hi Horatio

    My hunch is we'll have to agree to disagree. Am I biased? YES! I belive in accreditation and I believe that schools owe their students the complete truth and candidness. Ashworth is NOT rising to the challenge here.

    Having a valid U.S. accrediation is not the same as having the U.S. standard in accreditation. I think you both know and realize that. It would not be hard for Ashworth to explain that in simple accurate terms. They don't need to go in to RA vs NA in depth to explain that.

    To put it simply, Ashworth's accreditation page is NOT the place for them to over simplify in order to put an overly positive spin on themselves. As previously pointed out right now Ashworth is using a paragraph that emulates what most degree mills do. Ashworth can and should do better.
  19. Horatio

    Horatio New Member

    This we do agree upon. In my opinion a school is obligated to do only two things:

    1) Present their ACTUAL accreditation status.

    2) Do not make false claims regarding said status. (I.E. Will be universally accepted by all schools when the accreditation may not be.)

    If an accredited (NA or RA) school abides these rules then I have no problem with them at all.

    "CoachTurner" made an interesting observation:

    Whether it is the "standard" accreditation is also not material. They do not claim to be RA. RA isn't exactly "standard" either. Some professions have specific "standards".

    In my opinion Ashworth has done what it was suppose to do, they presented their actual accreditation status and made it clear that they do not guarantee transferablilty of their credits.

    They would have been misrepresenting themselves if they claimed that their credits were universally accepted for transfer credit and/or they held RA.

    Ashworth did not do either of those things and I am not going to accuse them of misrepresentation because they did not type out a multi- page essay on the difference between NA and RA accreditation after presenting their accreditation status.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2005
  20. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Ah yes,

    Just what the degree mills do. Present near factual but incomplete information that leaves the potential student likely to make incorrect assumptions. No one is suggesting pages of information, just a couple of well written and truthful paragraphs. Ashworth doesn't have "national accreditation" they have DETC accreditation. Instead of rising to the challenge they spin the information in order to increase sales. Sad but to be expected of such an organization. Just to be clear, RA IS the U.S. standard. We went through that earlier in the thread.

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