Ashworth College

Actually degree mills tend to play down the importance of accreditation in an attempt to justify their unaccredited status or worse yet they claim to be "fully accredited" then list some body that is unrecognised by the US DOE OR CHEA.

NOW THIS IS MISREPRESENTATION!

I do not believe Ashworth has done anything of the sort. Everything they claim to be they are....

They have offered all of the information that is pertinent to their accreditation. They are "nationally accredited," this is the absolute truth, there is no missing information.

Going off-topic for a bit; maybe you should complain to the American Public University System as well? They do not explain the difference between RA and NA either...in fact they do not even warn students about credit transferability so using your logic they must be worse then Ashworth....

http://www.apus.edu/APUS/Accreditation/Accreditation-and-Licensure.htm

Add "Education Direct" to the list as well in regards to their degree programs...they do not warn students of the transferability of their credits so they would be worse then Ashworth as well....

http://www.educationdirect.com/05-accred_cert.html

Looks like these NA schools have a lot to answer for huh?

DETC accreditation is an institution-wide source of nationally recognized accreditation that covers all distance study courses offered by an institution. It is unique in American accreditation because it is one based upon a method of instruction rather than educational level or subject matter discipline. It covers all programs, courses and distance study endeavors of an institution, including degree, non-degree, vocational and avocational programs.

http://www.detc.org/frequentlyQust.html

There are no significant national standards for accreditation. What is accreditable in New York may not be accreditable in California, and vice versa. The demands and standards of the group that accredits schools of chemistry may be very different from the people who accredit schools of forestry. And so on.

http://www.degree.net/guides/accreditation_guide.html

 

Your statement is inaccurate. "National accreditation makes it sound like Ashworth has the same accreditation as the local community college or state university. They do not and use this to spin the truth. They have left out the very important fact the accreditation they hold is NOT acceptable at many, perhaps MOST, of the schools their potential students would want to transfer to.


It is unfortunate that Ashworth is more concerned about maximizing their income instead of taking a couple of well written and accurate paragraphs to be honest and direct to their potential students. This kind of spin and near factual information is what most degree mills do. As I stated before, I expect more of Ashworth or any other accredited school.

 

So the DETC is incorrect when they state:

DETC accreditation is an institution-wide source of nationally recognized accreditation that covers all distance study courses offered by an institution. It is unique in American accreditation because it is one based upon a method of instruction rather than educational level or subject matter discipline. It covers all programs, courses and distance study endeavors of an institution, including degree, non-degree, vocational and avocational programs.

http://www.detc.org/frequentlyQust.html

They actually do! They are accredited by a body authorised by the US DOE and CHEA to offer accreditation.

http://www.degree.net/guides/gaap_listings.html

If you read this link you will quickly learn that the DETC is a GAAP recognised accrediting agency just like the big six are.

Again, they are accredited by a body authorised by the US DOE and CHEA to offer accreditation.

http://www.degree.net/guides/gaap_listings.html

If you read this link you will quickly learn that the DETC is a GAAP recognised accrediting agency just like the big six are.

That would be the fault of the schools in question. Ashworth makes it very clear to students that they should check with target schools for credit transferability BEFOREHAND. This alone is the responsible thing for Ashworth to do.

The other choice is Ashworth contacting every one of the thousands of colleges and universities across America and surveying them. This would be a waste of time as such policies are subject to change not to mention it is simply impracticle to do for many reasons.

This is a joke! If Ashworth was interested in maximising their income they would not charge a little over $3,000.00 for an Associate Degree that includes an interest free payment plan which allows a student to pay $10.00 down and $35.00 dollars a month!

Second, they have been honest. They have also made it clear to students that they should inquire about credit transferability to potential target schools BEFOREHAND! They have done the responsible thing here.

Please tell me that you are not comparing Ashworth to a degree mill?

 

Horatio

Yes of course I am. Ashworth is being less than candid and misleading by spinning the truth. Degree mills often do nothing more than that. RA is the standard U.S. accreditation. Ashworth holds DETC accreditation that is accepted much less often than RA. They gloss over the fact there is any difference and use the term "national" accreditation to mislead potential students. Yes they ask students to check the transferability with any school the student plans to transfer to. So do MANY degree mills! I expect more from ANY accredited school. Ashworth could and SHOULD do much better.

 

You are familiar with the fact that Ashworth classes are essentially one text book with tests? Ashworth does fine with their pricing structure and as a for-profit are doing everything possible to maximize income. To think otherwise is foolish.

 

Dave Hayden said:
"You are familiar with the fact that Ashworth classes are essentially one text book with tests?"

FINALLY we get to the point!

If you want to argue that Ashworth's academic standards are not up to par, just say so. That's a legitimate (and perhaps supportable) line of argument --

but please don't pretend that every school is somehow obliged to explain that its credits and degrees may not be acceptable in every circumstance. If that were your only complaint, then you'd have to admit that most DETC schools (including APUS, the example that was mentioned in this thread) are in the same boat.

The same applies to
-- every associate's degree with a strong technical component, regardless of its accreditation status
-- every professional program that has regional but not professional accreditation
-- every doctoral program, since virtually no research-doctorate credits are transferable beyond the master's level
-- every non-U.S. degree program that admits American students.

It would be helpful if every Australian technical institute explained that their courses may not receive full transfer credit at American liberal arts colleges, but I think it's unrealistic to say that every school is obliged to provide a statement along those lines.

 

I'm sitting here with 164.99 semester hours of undergraduate work on an Excelsior transcript. I have 129 on a transcript at Local State University and about 60 from a variety of CCs and Us that didn't transcript to either.

I'm trying to remember how many of the courses I've taken at a number of B&M universities were not "one textbook with tests".

I'm thinking it wasn't very many. Sure, there were some lit. classes that had anthologies or novels -- but still one primary textbook. I'm thinking "one textbook with tests" is about standard for B&M classes -- add in the sage on the stage who too often reads to me from that "one textbook".

I took a senior level English class last semester at local state university that had "no textbooks and no tests" -- I'm betting everyone got an A, wife and I did. Great class though, I learned alot.

Social Problems had "one textbook with tests" -- I didn't even have to go to class. Just pass the midterm and the final - A.

I just looked at one of those "one textbooks and tests" from the hotel program at Ashworth/PCDI -- not even degree level -- and it's pretty thorough material.

Wonder if we can find a couple RA AAS Biz grads who would take a comprehensive diagnostic against a group of Ashworth or Ed Direct grads. It'd be interesting to compare standardized test results like we can with DL law schools.

For what they are -- Ashworth serves their market just fine IMHO. I may just have to do one of their programs so I can offer a first hand opinion...

 

Hi Coach

I wasn't complaining about that aspect of Ashworth, just pointing out they can sell it cheap and still make extremely good margin since they have almost no cost. I think it is about equal to many local community colleges or perhaps a little lower. I will say that many of the classes I have taken at community colleges, private universities, and state colleges have been much more thorough than one "textbook and a test". You are correct that "for what they are they serve their market well".

 

How do you know this for a fact?

They are not "misleading" anybody. They hold GAAP level accreditation and they state that is what they hold. This is 100% absolute TRUTH!

They even go as far as to warn students to research about credit transferability. Let me tell you something, if they were going to mislead people, they would tell them that their accredited courses are accepted by all U.S. schools.

THIS WOULD BE MISLEADING PEOPLE!

Just because you repeat something ad nauseum will not make it true!

There are no significant national standards for accreditation. What is accreditable in New York may not be accreditable in California, and vice versa. The demands and standards of the group that accredits schools of chemistry may be very different from the people who accredit schools of forestry. And so on.

http://www.degree.net/guides/accreditation_guide.html

That is why Ashworth warns people to research degree transferability BEFOREHAND!

If potential students decide not to do this and they later discover that their credits are non-transferable then THEIR LAZINESS IS TO BLAME not Ashworth!

They are misleading people by telling them the truth about their accreditation status?

You are aware that the DETC refers to its accreditation as national?

DETC accreditation is an institution-wide source of nationally recognized accreditation that covers all distance study courses offered by an institution. It is unique in American accreditation because it is one based upon a method of instruction rather than educational level or subject matter discipline. It covers all programs, courses and distance study endeavors of an institution, including degree, non-degree, vocational and avocational programs.

http://www.detc.org/frequentlyQust.html

Are you comparing Ashworth to a degree mill?

In other words you want Ashworth to contact every one of the thousands of colleges and universities across America and survey them about credit transferability. Then you want them to write a multi-page list of schools that accept their credits and try and keep that list updated not to mention writing a page on the difference between RA and NA? Is this what you want?

Or do you want them to write that "most RA schools will not accept our courses for credit transfer" even though they have not surveyed every college and university across America to find out who would or would not accept their credits for transfer?

Is this what you want to see?

 

They can't write that because it is also not entirely true.

Most RA public universities in the US will accept the Ashworth training (credit) provided you are willing to validate that knowledge with either a nationally standardized examination of the subject (CLEP, DANTES, ECE, etc...) or an institutional evaluation/examination.

Far too many transfer students are too quick to accept a Registrar's non-acceptance of direct transfer as "well that class doesn't count" -- this is simply not the case. Often the case is "prove you know this to our standards or higher".

I had transfer credit for the entire theoretical foundation of a BA in Music Performance; some credit from very well respected RA schools. I was still required to validate that knowledge to the satisfaction of the department chair here. I didn't get transfer on some of that material but instead waiver.

There's more to transferability than a simple universal yes/no and it doesn't matter if the school is RA, NA, or noA. Granted, RA is easier -- but it's not automatic like some people think.

I have a Bio101 from an RA private that transferred to an RA public, without the lab. I have an English from an RA public in the same university system that this RA public won't transfer.

Ashworth tells us to check with the school we want to transfer to -- that's sound advice. It's universal whether you are attending an RA or an NA or even a school in the same system.

That's why UCLA wants a letter from the Dean of your program when you want to take a course at UCLA as a visiting student while enrolled at UVa. We're just accustomed to DL programs not caring about multiple enrollments.

...

 

Is that millish or misleading? That's from Eastern Arizona College.

U. Illinois U-C

Wouldn't matter if it were NA, RA, or anyA... We need to stop implying that RA to RA transfer is some automatic issue -- it is not.

There is indeed more to the story than RA or NA. The student in question in the OP is going to face the challenge that her work is technical/vocational level and wouldn't transfer to most BA/BS programs even if it were RA. Anymore than RA high school courses will transfer to an RA university...

Her Asworth associate degree will be a valuable addition to her credentials and will be looked down on only by a few elitists and those people who think everyone needs a BA/BSc or MBA or PhD.

We don't even know that she is a good candidate for a 4-year degree. It may be that a school like Ashworth, Ed Direct, or Community Business College and Secretary School is exaclty where she needs to be.

This then might bring us to the debate on whether every person in America is a valid post-secondary education candidate. But that doesn't impact on the validity of her education and training at Ashworth College.

 

SO TRUE! I call Ashworth the easier (not easy) alternative. It is an accredited institution that offers an easier curriculum for its students then many RA schools would offer.

1) Ashworth offers multiple choice format exams.
2) The exams are open book.
3) They offer strong vocational training in a multitude of fields.
4) The reward is an Associate Degree.

It is not unlike the "Registered Training Organizations" from Australia in many senses.

This school is a wonderful alternative for those who may not be up to the rigours of a 4 year RA degree but still want a credible legitimate accredited degree in their field.

 

Horatio

What I posted is simple and to the point. We both know the standard U.S. accreditation is RA. The majority of U.S.schools (even community colleges) are RA. All of the schools we would think of as the "best" are RA. Schools that are DETC and can achieve it apply for RA (USOU, WGU, APUS). Many, perhaps most, RA schools will not accept DETC credits without additional validation (ie CLEP, ACE, etc).

This isn't to denigrate DETC but to be accurate. Often students can use DETC to their full advantage. Other times they run into difficulty and may have repeat whole courses of study.

It would be EXTREMELY easy for Ashworth to write several accurate and succinct paragraphs that explain while they don't hold RA they are accredited by a DOE and CHEA approved accreditor that is often considered equal. Instead they simple call it "national accreditation" leaving the majority of their potential students to believe they hold a level of accreditation they DON'T.

So yes, by being truthful but not precise they are being misleading in the same way degree mills often spin the truth. In that way Ashworth IS emulating degree mills. I definately expect much more from them than that and I believe you should too.

 

Hi Coach

1. I think you make a very good point about RA to RA not being automatic. Given that is it reasonable to assume DETC to RA will be any easier or tougher?

2. As to the Ashworth degree being valuable, I don't believe that has been established nor was I speaking to that although it does seem like you are assuming it will w/o supporting facts. Quite frankly I have no idea and would not make such assumptions without much more information.

3. As to the original poster's capabilities, I would again reserve judgement without sufficent information.

The only question I was speaking to was Ashworth's imprecise description of their DETC accreditation.

 

Hi Horatio

So how would you compare it to the local CC or even DL CCs?

 

There is no significant standard of accreditation in the United States.

Just because many colleges and universities prefer RA accreditation from the big six to other types of accreditation does not lessen the legitimacy of DETC accreditation.

DETC is just as valid and recognised as the big six are, they are recognised by the same governing bodies.

Ummmm...THEY DO JUST THAT!!!

All of the home study programs at Ashworth College are accredited by the Accrediting Commission of the Distance Education and Training Council, which is listed by the U.S. Department of Education as a nationally recognized accrediting agency for distance learning schools.

http://www.ashworthcollege.com/aboutus/accredited.html

NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED ACCREDITING AGENCIES

http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg6.html#Nationally%20Recognized

http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg8.html#det

"Distance Education and Training Council, Accrediting Commission

1959/2001/F2006

Scope of recognition: the accreditation of postsecondary institutions in the United States that offer degree programs primarily by the distance education method up through the first professional degree level, and are specifically certified by the agency as accredited for Title IV purposes; and the accreditation of postsecondary institutions in the United States not participating in Title IV that offer programs primarily by the distance education method up through the first professional degree level."

Any accredited degree is valuable. If I was applying for a job as a security manager, I think my chances of getting the job would improve if I had an Ashworth degree in Security Management rather then no degree.

Their description was 100% accurate. If you feel it is not accurate then I would suggest you contact the US DOE as they are the ones that refer to their accreditor as nationally recognised.

Since I do not how U.S. "CCs" operate I cannot intelligently comment on the that particular issue.

 

Many? How about all or nearly all? Do you really think ANY DETC accredited school would turn down RA? Do you have any supporting information for that assertion?

Agreed. DETC is both legitimate AND valid. That in no means it is equal or has the same utility.

They use the term "national accreditation" in a way that WILL mislead most if not all of their potential students. They do not even mention there is any difference betwen their own accreditation and that of most U.S. schools. They clearly fail to give the information needed.

That is an interesting belief but I am unsure it is true. I can imagine many jobs where a degree from Ashworth may be of no use or benefit. If that is the case then the Ashworth degree in that instance would be of no value.

Again, Ashworth has glossed over the description of their accreditation in a way that is extremely likely to mislead potential students in the same way degree mills do. That doesn't make Ashworth a degree mill but it does suggest they are not upholding DETC's reputation. Again, I expect MUCH more of them. Perhaps I expect too much.

 

Good debate

Mr. Hayden,

You speak a lot about NA versus RA. Do you have any personal experiences with either type of institution? If so, would you be willing to share them? I checked your profile and no educational information is listed.

I'd personally be interested in knowing the following: What is the highest degree you have been awarded? Who accredited the schools you are/were affiliated with? Did you have trouble transferring credits? Were all the programs equally rigorous?

I'm not trying to be nosey. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. Feel free to post a response here or send me a PM.

 

Re: Good debate

Hi Bush04

Why do you ask? The questions you asked have no bearing on the topic being discussed or the points made. Either they are true or they aren't and I am not going to go into personal history when it has no relevance to the topic. When people do go into personal history we have seen what happens with it on less reputable discussion boards. We have seen the way Professor Gollin has been personally attacked because of his stand against the degree mill St. Regis.

 

Just so I am clear which assertion are you referring too?

The US Department of Education refers to the accreditor of Ashworth as a "NATIONALLY recognized" accrediting body yet Ashworth is misleading people by claiming to be nationally accredited?

DETC accreditation is just as valid in the eyes of the US DOE as RA or any other legitimate accreditation.

The fact that some schools choose to only accept courses from certain accreditors does not lessen the legal validity of DETC accreditation.

Actually, the FBI accepts 4-year DETC accredited programs.

To qualify for training as a Special Agent, an individual must be a US citizen, or a citizen of the Northern Mariana Islands, and have reached his/her 23rd but not 37th birthday. All candidates must possess a valid driver's license and must pass a polygraph examination, a drug test, and a color vision test. Other requirements include uncorrected vision not worse than 20/200 (Snellen) and corrected 20/20 in one eye and not worse than 20/40 in the other eye. Applicants must possess a four-year degree from a college or university accredited by one of the regional or national institutional associations recognized by the United States Secretary of Education.

-FBI careers page

Repeating the same argument ad nauseum will not make it true.

FACT: Ashworth is nationally accredited by the DETC
FACT: Ashworth warned potential students to investigate the utility of their degrees. AT NO POINT DOES ASHWORTH PRESENT ITS DEGREES/DIPLOMA'S AS UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED QUALIFICATIONS!!!

These are the facts and you cannot change them.