American vs. European Graduate Degrees

You forgot to add smiley. Don't be so incensed.

Ike

 

Just as a follow-up, as per the June 29, 2001 issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education there is a global evaluation of research universities based on papers produced and how often cited. Because doctoral research is a key contributor to said research. It is outcome based and the global comparisons are interesting. The U.K. paper, The Guardian, did the research and it can be found at:
http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research

John

 

The concept of education is definitely not linear. The quality of the education should not based upon the number of pages in your thesis and/or dissertaion or how many units of course work you have completed or how many nobel laureates have been produced.

In the traditional sense, a master's degree, is supposed to be where the student truly becomes a "Master," of her chosen field of study. Similarly, a doctorate represents the uppermost level of education and/or training that a student could get.

In reviewing the American system, one would easily notice the repetition of courses at the bachelors, masters and even at the doctoral level.

However, under the British system of education, the training and/or education courses that a student received during her undergraduate program is generally not repeated, even if the graduate program is not a research based program. Thus, the training is more focused to give a student the required "tools" for garduate studies.

My observation, under the British system, is that the training is intended to broaden the student's knowledge base, rather than becoming "practically well versed" in the subject matter.

Thus, under the British and other commonwealth systems of education, a doctoral student may get better training because of the knowledge base the student is expected to fathom. An example would be a medical graduate coming from U.K. to U.S., who has been trained to treat a patient without resorting to extensive lab work (ignoring professional liability concerns).

However, a student under the American system of education, is likely to have "more application knowledge" related to a "real life" scenario, because of the training based on course work coupled with a plethora of case studies.

Any comments?

 

I went through the standard English route (Scottish is a bit different) for a PhD (BSc straight into a PhD) and as part of a PhD in England it was required that a course of instruction is followed such as formal lectures, seminars and presentations. I did sit an exam for some of these but this does not form part of the assesement of the PhD (except if I failed I would be thrown out). I also had to produce a Masters level thesis after a year to allow me to proceed with my PhD. Also part of by BSc included a thesis for an independent project (20%) which is normal in the UK and therefore I doubt that there are any real differences in quality between the UK and American PhD’s. The main difference is that UK PhD's are a lot younger than American (and European especially Germans) PhDs and are therefore cheaper to employ! - hence 50,000 UK PhD's working in America (I read this somewhere). Of course this was when only 15% of the most able teenagers went to University and hence were capable of advanced narrowly focused learning at a fast rate. I do like the American (and Scottish/European systems) which encourage a broader learning experience but this is more expensive.

On a different topic I find it quite strange that there are so many people in America wishing to have doctorates (especially multiple ones) when in the UK having a doctorate can be almost a negative thing (equal to admitting to be a train spotter – if you don’t know what this is look up weird and English in Google) and are usually hidden outside Academia although I find the title Doctor useful when booking tables at restaurants.

 

Exactly! This is precisely a point I was hoping to make.

 

One hopes you haven't come to that conclusion by the impressions you received from this group. We are likely skewed in that regard. Considering the tiny proportion of the American population with doctoral degrees, I don't that such a broad assumption is supported.

Rich Douglas

 

I like this explanation as well as others so far. I think the different focuses between American & British (more application based vs. theoretical enhancement (generally)) rings true from what I have discussed with many people I know.

There are definitely strengths and weaknesses in both systems. I guess my journey thus far is to be reminded of the practicalities that I often encounter--perhaps that's why I am more drawn to the practical side of U.S. education recently.

By the way, what system of education would Canada most resemble? For me, it seems like a hybrid of the U.S. and British.

EsqPhD

 

I think you will find more people in this group who might be classified as academics than elsewhere. (At the very least you'll find more people who simply love to learn than you will in the general population.)

For those who want a good (and humorous) article on train-spotting: http://my.genie.co.uk/robainsley/eikoku/7.html

 

Is it the time of the month for you Rich? Sometimes it is not worthwhile to even dignify a silly comment but since you insist.
A poster commented on 50,000 UK Phds in the US... not counting Australia, Canada, etc.. Each year there are many thousands of professional work visas granted to inviduals who, almost without exception, have foreign professional credentials. This does not include US permanent residents who were educated oversees or US citizens who were educated oversees. We should also consider the plethora of evidence from Dr. Bear and other testifying to the acceptance of legitimate foreign degrees in the US.
Finally, there are the number of US corporations who recruit outside the US.
I could go on but I tire.

 

Hello, Lewchuck!

I think an interesting counter-scenario would be, "How many Americans with American credentials are working offshore?", particularly in academia. I don't know about this, but perhaps you do.

Cordially yours,


Karlos Alberto Lacaye
[email protected]

 

You cannot tell who is "American" and I don't have any "numbers" but I have seen numerous examples which indicate the following:
-people (Americans?) who complete undergrad/grad in the US, go oversees/Canada for grad/doctorate and end up staying there.
-people who complete undergrad/grad oversees/Canada and pursue grad/doctorate in the US and end up going "home".
Incidently, if you pursue the "news" from the legitimate Universities in the US and commonwealth countries you will see a lot of visiting professors from "foreign" schools.