Affirmative action bake sale at Berkley - yeah I know its old

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by ryoder, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

  2. 03310151

    03310151 New Member

    Well white men have held down others for so long it's only fair that they have to pay more.
     
  3. okydd

    okydd New Member

    What was that point you wanted to prove? "the medium is the message", Marshall McLuhan. If he was on to something then it was this bake sale which was racist, or more accurately the organizers and supporters, not affirmative action. I am not a supporter of affirmative action, but the majority can't buried their head in the sand and will a level playing, because the playing field is not level.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2011
  4. 03310151

    03310151 New Member

    What's not level about the playing field?
     
  5. okydd

    okydd New Member

    if it is was level then you would not need affirmative action and other such programs. To think it is a level playing then you are not dealing in reality. In almost every occasions I got go interact with a minority in a senior position that person was always hyper qualified. Being equally qualified as the majority hardly ever lead to success.
     
  6. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Native American women get free cookies!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  7. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    That bake sale was idiotic and only meant to stir up controversy. It is intentionally deceptive. First of all, California state universities got rid of affirmative action 16 years ago, so why are Berkeley college Republicans doing this?

    Second. If we were going to be REALLY accurate, and represent affirmative action policies of other universities, Asians should be paying MORE than white men.

    Third, white WOMEN would be paying MORE than white men since they are going to college at a higher rate than men and universities are giving men some preferential treatment to keep the gender numbers in balance.

    Fourth, I have NEVER seen one of these "bake sales" give a discount to students who are legacies, yet the student had as much input into being born a legacy as being born a certain. Considering some of the legacies that I PERSONALLY know who got into elite schools, my bet is that should be worth AT LEAST $1 (maybe $2+ if daddy is a regular donor). My bet is that if Berkeley decided to get rid of legacy preferences at the same time they got rid of affirmative action, many fewer of those college Republicans would have supported the measure.

    Furthermore, if we are talking about elite private universities, students from North Dakota, and Wyoming should also get a big "discount" at the bake sale. I don't know how many people know this, but most elite private schools have a goal to get at least one student from every state in each class. At least the College Republican president of my Alma Mater was intellectually honest about this policy when he would regularly refer to himself as "The Quota From Oklahoma".

    Honestly, the whole "angry white male" pity party concerning college admissions sounds hypocritical and intentionally misleading these days. It just seems like more race baiting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2011
  8. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    Affirmative action is most assuredly not dead.

    Division of Minority & Women Business Development

    The government has quotas for using MWBE (minority and women owned businesses) in procurement contracts.
    Nobody has crafted legislation to force the government to purchase from white men. So the playing field is not level. It is tilted away from white men.

    Now you may say that white men tend to have more wealth than a minority woman. Correlation does not imply causality.
     
  9. okydd

    okydd New Member

    There is no racism against white men. You may find instances where qualified minorities are given opportunities but most times is it to correct a perceived or real inequality. There is no movement in north America to legislate racism against white men. Almost the whole world is Condemning the situation in Zimbabwe against white farmers. I know about black and white issues. I live it everyday, from having black and white kids, black and white siblings, nieces nephews, spouse, in-laws and living in diverse cultures. You need to work on your moral sense of virtue, care and justice.
     
  10. DLer

    DLer New Member

    That is because the provision for no-bid and sole source contracts (which is where the REAL money is) makes it easy for this group to obtain contracts legally (under the guise of national security) and at great cost to the US taxpayers. Look at the list of the 20 top defense contractors.

    Bunny Greenhouse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2011
  11. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    I need to work on what?

     
  12. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    Do you understand why no bid contracts exist? It is not a guise. Can you imagine a Pakistani firm bidding on a US defense department contract and undercutting Boeing by 1%?

    And how does the defense department contracting out to Boeing and others have anything to do with white men?

    I am not saying their is racism against white men. I am saying that the deck is stacked in favor of select ethnicities and genders that exclude white men. There are plenty of ethnicities that do not enjoy any affirmative action.

    Affirmative action is racist. And affirmative action is state mandated. It is what it is.

     
  13. DLer

    DLer New Member

    I know why they exist and more importantly I know how they are abused. The abuse is what cost the taxpayers many, many, many times more than all of the 8A, Native American, Veteran owned business,etc....contracts combined. The looting of the tax payers comes when no bid contracts or cost + contracts are handed out to a single corporation to the exclusion of ALL OTHER AMERICAN COMPANIES, despite the ability of other American companies to deliver better products, services and prices. This is where the real money is wasted. Billions upon billions wasted.

    KBR losing exclusive hold on Iraq contracts - The New York Times
     
  14. 03310151

    03310151 New Member

    Racism against white people? Absolutely, I've experienced first hand growing up. Plus with all those attacks on whites over the summer you'd have to be intentionally stupid to not notice that there is some racism against white people.

    Or are you saying that there's no institulionized racism against white people? I can agree with that.
     
  15. 03310151

    03310151 New Member

    1. I think that it is level to the extent that it can be (all your wishing and hoping and shaming language only goes so far-and you are preaching to the choir here). Racism is a fact of life. Hating people who are different than you is a fact of life (look at the demographic breakdown of those voted against Prop 8 in California for an example of this). All your hand-wringing about it will not change it.

    2. So you are saying that every minority in a high level position has been more qualified than the "other" people? What do you mean by qualifications? Education? Experience? Generally the person with the most education/experience will get the job. Are you saying that minorities in leadership positions are over qualified because they had to be in ordert to get the job?
     
  16. okydd

    okydd New Member

    Thanks for making it clearer- that is what I meant. Most of the initiatives to help minorities are done by white men. I owed many of my successes to white men. I am against affirmative action not because it is racist, but the perception that I may not be as qualified. But many qualified minorities do need help to get their feet in the door.
     
  17. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    I work with plenty of guys from India and they have rampant affirmative action there. Ask anyone from India about affirmative action and they will tell you that the bar is lowered for government jobs and positions at the top universities. It makes no sense to lower standards to try and help people. Go ahead and hand out money to people who don't have it if you are a socialist but to lower the standards for someone is not helping them. Having a quota definitely lowers the requirements.

    Check this out.
    In 1998, 0.765 percent of the entire resident population of male 17-year-olds in the U.S. took the SAT math exam and scored 750 or higher, compared with 0.318 percent of the corresponding females.

    Women and Minorities in Science

    Now if you say that you want 50/50 women/men in the math department at your school, you are forced to lower the SAT requirements for women and raise the requirement for men in order to cut out the numbers. A 750 requirement would get you 77%/33% men/women so you would need to raise men to, say 780 required and lower women to 700 for example. You have to raise the bar for men and lower it for women to reach the desired level of "equality".

    This of course is not fair and is sexist.
     
  18. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    The biggest puzzle I have with AA is that it aims to alleviate the adverse effects of the problem rather than to get to the root of it and actually come up with a solution. It is like social liposuction.

    Before implementing policy to realign the earth's axis, one should ask "why is it that women score less than men on that test?" Are the women simply less interested in math and therefore less inclined to study? Is that hypothetical lower interest socially constructed, or is it just ingrained into the female genetic code?

    Ultimately, if there is a real social problem that causes the "inequality" then I could understand someone desiring to step in and trying to work out a solution. However, one needs to figure out if there is a real problem to begin with. If a neighborhood with 100 kids sees 90 of them playing baseball and 10 playing basketball, you don't need to force more to play baseball just like you don't need to force more to pursue mathematics.

    Ok, yes, before someone yells at me that mathematics is important, you are preaching to the choir. I'm simply saying that mathematics ability is equally as desirable and honorable as verbal ability, visual/spacial ability, creative ability and the like. No one needs to decide how many people of what population need to pursue which ability.
     
  19. okydd

    okydd New Member

    It is too bad in 2011 Carl Campbell Brigham still have desciples. You need to go back and do your research on India. The higher castes are complaining - not the same as the lower caste not qualified.


     
  20. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    My friend was living in an apartment complex owned by a lower cast family. They had much more money than him and his family and their daughter got a full ride at a school that my friend couldn't even get into and he had better grades than her.
     
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