ACCIS?

To perhaps clarify, it is not rumor that they were claiming WAUC accreditation right up until they were accredited by DETC. This is fact. It's also not rumor that they are still related to several "less-than-wonderful" schools and that the same people who ran ACCIS in the bad old days still run it today. These are all facts and not really open to interpretation.

Now, the academic quality of the program is certainly open to interpretation, but nothing stands alone. Yes, it can have a reasonably good academic quality and all of the above can be true.


Tom Nixon

 

What I mean by rumor is that past WAUC accredation is always being brought up but there is no definition to exactly why that accredation was "fraudulent".

I looked up WAUC's site. http://www.web-hed.com/wauc/ . What I didn't like about their site was this quote:

So what does this image mean then????

At least this could have been an attempt to be accredited, an attempt to be recognised. Am I just naive? Was their any actual fraudulent intent??

Was DETC accredation only a matter of time. Was WAUC accredation an evolutionary step or fraudlulent??

 

I do not see ANY POSSIBLE WAY that an institution could join WAUC and *not* know full well that the organization is fraudulent. An attempt to be "recognized" by a fraudulent accreditor is an attempt to defraud, plain and simple.

You seem to have this grand idea that regionally accredited schools don't accept the degrees of unaccredited or DETC accredited schools because of the cost difference.

Baloney.

Roger Habeck earned a Charter Oak degree (regonally accredited) for, if I remember right, under $2500.

Anyone with a fair amount of experience and some diligence can earn a degree from Regents/Excelsior or Thomas Edison for a similar amount (certainly under $5000).

A regionally accredited masters degree can be had from Vermont College for something in the $10-15K range or less (sorry, I don't remember the details)

ALL of the above schools have had students accepted to some of the most prestigious RA schools in the country. So clearly, it is not discrimination about money.

As I said in my original post, if all you care about is what you learn, ACCIS is probably fine. Of course, on the other hand, if all you care about is what you learn, you could buy a CS curriculum's worth of books and find a couple of local mentors and probably learn everything you'd learn from ACCIS for a lot less than ACCIS charges.

But if you care about how your degree might be perceived in the future, about limiting your options if you later decide to pursue an RA masters, then ACCIS is clearly not the best choice.

I just don't see how you can *NOT* get the point. Why support a school whose most senior executives personally chose to defraud students by advertising bogus accreditation when there are plenty of other high-quality, regionally accredited programs that don't have any of the ACCIS baggage? I see absolutely *NO* compelling reason to recommend ACCIS under any circumstances, given their checkered history and all of the other excellent programs with no such history.

 

Hmmm John you seem to want to choose ACCIS despite informed opinions. If that is true go ahead, it is your money and future. DETC is a secondary or substandard accreditation for US schools. If you are going take classes for learning only and won't be using the degree in your career the accreditation shouldn't matter. You should however directly investigate the teaching quality. Will ACCIS let you audit a class? I am always amazed that substandard schools get any students (suckers?) when there are high quality, fully accredited choices at or near the same cost. Why take a risk when there isn't a good reason too? Best of luck.

Regards,
Dave

 

Hi John

One point I forgot to make. WAUC is a big deal because many of the out and out fraudulent Degree Mills are WAUC accredited (a total sham agency w/o any legitimacy). Would you take your car to a mechanic that you knew had performed fraudulent repairs previously?

Dave

 

I am not defending ACCIS. I am trying to figure out what exactly the fraudulant act was. Why is WAUC a fraudulent accreditor?

It is a theory.I'm trying to rationalise why ivy schools lag behind in distance education. Take for example, Mcgill University in montreal.They are 15 years behind the times. Why?

Are you saying that the *program* at Thomas Edison is as good or better than ACCIS?

I live in Canada. I might want to move to the States if a job opportunity appears there.(I'm interested in game programing) Therefore I need a bachelors(Computer Science). I've read John Smiley's book on visual basic 6. I enjoyed it. However, I need the degree so that is why I'm wading through the various online opportunities out there. Unfortunately, Canada has not waken up to the explosive possibilities of online education. I can't wait for Quebec and Canada to get their rear in gear. So the U.S. is the next option.

I'm listening.

OK Thanks.

 

DaveHayden, I missed your post. Thanks for the advice. ACCIS's site just seemed so organised. Guess I should cool my heels. Kind of eager to get going.

 

DaveHayden:

Was the 'mechanic' fraudulent or was the 'shop' ,that the mechanic had to work in because he was new ,fraudulent?

 

Checking Thomas Edison's site at:
[url="http://www.tesc.edu/prospective/undergraduate/tuition.phpI"]http://www.tesc.edu/prospective/undergraduate/tuition.php[/url]I[/url] see that it costs(international student Annual Enrollment Tuition ): ($1520/year) + 298$ per crdit* 33 credits=(1520$*years taken for degree)+
9900$

Seems more expensive than ACCIS.

Even the Comprehensive Tuition Option
costs $3600/year. Assuning at least 3-4,5? years, we're looking at ~11000 to 18000$??

 

I'd say that ACCIS is near or on the bottom rung of DETC accredited schools. (Is there room on the bottom rung for two, HPiper? ) Most RA schools are superior to DETC schools. ACCIS used some sleazy and dishonest advertising practices in the past by claiming a bogus accreditation from the totally useless WAUC. On the other hand, as the esteemed Dr. Bear wisely stated, DETC may be second rate but its far ahead of whatever is third rate.

That's pretty close to a summary that you'll be able to get out of this forum except to possibly add (in honor of pcovers ) that ACCIS students that have posted here and at a.e.d. have generally spoken postively of their experience at AACIS.

 

This so contrasts with the good presentation at ACCIS' site.

Thanks again for the tips.

 

John,

Please excuse me for being a little harsh before. We seem to have attracted several shills in the past few weeks, and it was really sounding like you were in that category. I can see now that this isn't the case.

One of the really wonderful things about schools like TESC (or, for that matter, Charter Oak or Excelsior) is that, used most optimally, TESC is the glue that ties together a curriculum that *you* create (within the confines of their distribution requirements.)

You can assemble courses from *any* regionally accredited school in the U.S., do learning on your own and use that to challenge coursework through either exams or portfolio, add in credit-by-exam from Ohio University-Athens, and a whole bunch of other stuff as well.

I'm going to assume that you're the self-motivated type, a reasonably fast learner, and have a certain amount of knowledge (not necessarily CS/CIS related, but college-level knowledge of things related to whatever line of work you're in, etc.)

If that's the case, diligent effort on your part, combined with a combination of the above means ought to enable you to assemble a regionally accredited degree in a year or two, at a cost of $3500/year flat rate (which, btw, *includes* up to 30 credits per year of TESC DIAL courses, unlimited portfolio assessments, and some of their test fees) plus the cost of credit-by-exam at Ohio University, courses taken at places like Chemeketa Community College ($40 or so per credit)... so it really doesn't add up to nearly as much as you might think.

I'm not sure if they offer CS/CIS, but as a Canadian, you might also check out Athabasca University in Alberta. They are somewhat similar to TESC, and with the CDN-US conversion rate, they're probably a much better deal.

One other thought: In spite of the dotcom crash, programmers are still in hot demand, and a degree is a *lot* less important than you might think. If you can show real talent (i.e., have some quality code and/or finished products that you've developed), you can easily get hired without a degree, and then you can leverage the knowledge you gain at your job to earn a degree while getting paid to learn the stuff that will be used for your degree.

So, with all that said, I really hope you can see why I can't see any good reason to consider ACCIS.

I hope this is helpful; feel free to email me (chip at shifless dot com) or -- better yet -- Tom Head, coauthor of two books on DL-based IT degrees ([email protected]) for more information.

Best of luck!!

Chip

 

I agree with the RA/DL approach to a general CS degree. If you have a hunk o' burning desire for a focused study in the niche area of game programming, there just aren't a lot of degrees of freedom, so to speak. Here are some residential game programming programs with varying accreditation standards:
http://www.tees.ac.uk/prospstud/course-dulldetails.cfm?course_id=115
http://www.digipen.com/ http://www.ebci.ca/Interactive.htm http://larc.csci.unt.edu/ (not a focused degree program, but a friendly atmosphere)

 

John M asked "Why is WAUC a fraudulent accreditor?"

Well...

WAUC is not among the nationally recognized accrediting agencies that the Secretary of Education has determined to be reliable authorities as to the quality of education or training provided by the institutions of higher education and the higher education programs they accredit. See http://www.ed.gov/offices/OPE/accreditation/natlagencies.html

Claiming accreditation from a non-recognized association is at best an indication of woeful ignorance of the US higher education system; more likely, an attempt to mislead potential students.

The President of WAUC, Dr. Maxine Asher, is also president of American World University, which -- surprise! -- is accredited by WAUC (and has recently moved its mailing address from Iowa to South Dakota). The WAUC-AWU connection is not mentioned on either website. Nor is Asher's Atlantis research mentioned -- http://www.atlantisresearch.com/

The list of WAUC-accredited schools includes Cambridge State University, closed down by the Louisiana attorney general in 1998.
See http://www.ag.state.la.us/pressrel/082698a.htm



------------------
Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

Added to Kristin's notes regarding the inacceptability of WAUC as an accreditor:

A fake office in Las Vegas which, when I made a personal visit, turned out to be a message-forwarding service that also rented out office space by the hour, day, or week. Dr. Asher actually conducted WAUC business from Los Angeles.

No semblance of an accrediting process. William Howard Taft University sued them, I believe, on this basis.

WAUC does not list the addresses of the schools it accredits, nor will it provide such a list. The phone numbers provided are usually fax numbers.

WAUC-accredited schools usually do not reveal that their accreditation is not recognized by the USDOE or CHEA and, therefore, is of little academic value. (But it is of great propaganda value!)

Rich Douglas

 

I suppose I'll throw my hat in this ring. I had a most disappointing experience with the DL CIS program at University of Maryland University College. The instruction was lacklustre and the administration was unresponsive to student input. Even from a 53-year old Ph.D. who identified himself as such. I transferred to UMass Lowell where I've had just an entirely different reception. My instructors are skilled in the content area and extremely accessible. I once waited two weeks for a response to an e-mail at UMUC. I've rarely waited more than overnight at UML. Moreover, the tuition is much less and there is no additional fee for out-of-state students. For those interested in a very student-centered online IS program I would encourage you to explore http://cybered.uml.edu/

 

Wow, David. Thanks for the info. It's the first time I've heard of this particular program, and it sounds like a good program from a respected school.

I particularly like the way some of these schools are letting out-of-state students doing DL pay the in-state rates. Chemeketa and Eastern Oregon U do this, and it makes it a much better deal for students.

Thanks for the input! Keep us advised.

Chip

 

Thanks for all the tips again. I was down visiting NY city and couldn't respond earlier. This perticular link from Bill Highsmith has alot of game programming info.
http://larc.csci.unt.edu/ .