15 Worst Bachelors - Student Loan Dept

It's disheartening to see some that were on this list that seem needed in communities... but probably are not paying people well.

 

This "survey" (?) is a very one-sided view. "Worst" is judged by one number - student debt. ROI is not considered. Some tend to have lower starting incomes, possibly lower ROI (depending on advancement in the work world) and take more time to repay student debt. Others - e.g. the physical science,s lead to better starting incomes and are potentially higher ROI. Some Bachelor's degrees, e.g. clinical psych. are necessary foundations for grad degrees. Holders of those can go on to higher-end incomes.

This "survey" is flawed. AI flawed? Maybe... If you take this one too seriously, you're ...uh, "skewed."

 

It surprises me with Healthcare Professional and Architecture.

 

I don't think Computer Science is useless. If I have to hire people in the Tech field, Computer Science is always number one choice.

 

Not useless. The problem is - it's been made too popular. Over-emphasized. Now, the field is flooded with grads seeking jobs. Not enough jobs to go around - particularly first jobs in the field. It's just like law school...

You can't hire 'em all, TEKMAN. And neither can all the other employers put together.

 

I think the criticism is the relevancy of university education in the work place. If you stop working in CS for 5 years and you want to come back, it is very difficult to use the CS degree. Also, once you reach certain age, it is not so easy to get CS jobs. Many CS graduates go into other fields as it is not so easy to keep up.
The demand of the CS work is high but it is difficult to qualify. I see how companies prefer to hire new graduates over older candidates.

 

Depends on the job. The more senior the position - the more relevant experience is required. Hence, higher age of successful applicants.

Sure, companies like to hire younger grads for positions that require less experience. But there are SO many of them! They can't hire them all - not even close. Many of these grads have been sold a "bill of goods" here - often by the very schools that taught them, vastly overstating employment prospects. "Roped in."

We've heard from some of these grads here on DI. ...I read this stuff.

 

IT is a bit different, it requires long hours and weekends and willingness to spend hours to learn new technologies. The 40 or 50+ IT professional with a family and commitments is not normally willing to do this. Many older CS graduates just do MBAs or other degrees to be able to cope family with profession.
The other problem with CS is that anyone with the right experience can compete with you, there is no need to have a CS degree to be a successful IT professional.
Engineering is a better bet as at least you need certain knowledge to practice engineering and more of a stable career. If you like CS, you can try Electrical Engineering or Industrial Engineering, they provide more stable career options in my opinion.

 

As they say in Nigerian Pidgin "I no gree." (I don't agree.) There are so many people wanting IT jobs, most places you'll need the degree to get your resume read and your foot in the door to be (hopefully) hired. What you're saying is possible, but not as frequent as you make it sound - by a long shot. For people who have degrees, it's hard enough - because there are so many applicants and so few jobs. Yes, there are people who can do IT jobs without a degree. It's still a major problem to get hired without one. The next person, who has a degree, will have a leg-up on you, and maybe another applicant has two or three degrees and will dislodge them.

Nah. We have a 71-year old IT guy here, a regular in the forum. Been at it all his working career as far as I know. I believe he's in a management role within IT now. Gotta hand it to someone who started out as a programmer and spent nearly 50 successful years in IT. Awesome. And yes, I believe he had a degree to start with. Likely helped him get that first IT job, way back when.

Props and kudos to him, definitely, -- but he can hardly be the only one. RFValve, I think your premise is flawed. I worked very closely with IT people most of my working life and in later working years, did programming myself within the work environment. To me, what I just read here doesn't match what I saw back at the office.

 

Well, I'm seeing kids getting out of school now after graduating with a CS degree and having jobs lined up well before they even graduate. So their prospects can't be too bad.

Learning on the job is simple. I don't know what could possibly be so hard to learn for a CS graduate moving to a new position? Even learning a new computer language for a CS graduate really is very easy.

 

Glad to hear good news - at least in one part of the country. I'm still not sure about the rest. And yes, there are always at least some people who have been preparing for their post-school lives. And some who have not. And I note you said those with a CS degree. I suspect it isn't quite so great a market for those trying to get in without a degree.

Glad to hear this -- from someone who really knows. Thanks, Bill.

 

Every place I ever worked, HR would not even pass on any resumes that didn't have at least a Bachelors degree in CS, IS, EE or something similar.

Here in San Diego the market for CS type degrees may be much stronger than other areas. Here in San Diego there are a number of large research organizations both military and non-military. We shared our cafeteria with folks that developed lots of cool things like the big drones that are so popular with our military.

 

Thanks for confirming it. I thought so.

Yes - I think the market for CS grads may be stronger there, too. Know where I can get one of those drones? There's a really bad school or two I'd like to put out of business... permanently.

 

Here's what a quick Google search found.

Five U.S. military drones cost between $10 million and $60 million, including the $20 million armed Predator reconnaissance drone manufactured by General Atomics, the San Diego-based private energy and defense company.

The price tag might be a bit steep for us. We need to come up with a new plan.

 

I'm on it... thinking about it. Thanks, Bill. I'll be in touch.

 

The Real Student Loan Crisis Isn't From Undergraduate Degrees

Misled by a bad law, graduate students are drowning in debt.

Link: https://reason.com/2024/02/06/the-real-student-loan-crisis/

Students who borrowed for graduate degrees are most heavily in debt. "From the 2006–2007 academic year to the 2021–2022 academic year, the number of master’s degrees conferred has increased by over 50 percent."

It features a story of a woman who "went back to school, finishing several associate degrees and then completing a bachelor's in psychology from California Lutheran University. But even then she struggled to find work that paid enough."

"I got offered $15 an hour with a bachelor's and four associates," Lowe says. "So I was like, 'Well, I have to get my master's, and I'll be a therapist.'" Lowe soon settled on entering a Master of Social Work (MSW) program. She scoured the internet for MSW programs, best MSW programs, affordable MSW programs.One school kept popping up: USC.

"Soon Lowe found herself on the phone with a USC representative, who she says aggressively sold her on the school's MSW program."

"USC employs an entirely different cohort of faculty to teach online MSW classes and that online students receive a substantial portion of instruction in the form of prerecorded lectures. The school also outsourced academic support staffing to 2U, a Maryland-based education tech company—the same company responsible for the online program's aggressive recruiters."

"Once she logged on, Lowe became concerned she wasn't receiving an adequate education. She says her teachers showed students decades-old videos and often didn't know how to operate the platform used to conduct online classes, leading to frequent delays."

"After briefly struggling to find a job after graduation, Lowe eventually landed a position as a public school social worker. She's making just $25 an hour. "That's what I was making as a manager at Yogurtland," she says."

 

Degrees aren't magic bullets but they often open the door to opportunities. IMO you shouldn't expect to get a job directly out of college that pays an amazing salary, but within a couple of years, it's more likely to be of use. It's also difficult to prove a negative, you have no idea how much NOT having the degree might have held you back, and sometimes it isn't about the money but the type of work you are doing. Would you rather be working as a social worker or managing a Yogurtland? with your degree you have the option, without the degree, you don't.

 

This is also crucial:

"The lesson is simple: You should go to college, but only if you are fairly certain that you have the academic chops to finish."

"Unfortunately, huge numbers of students don't follow this advice. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, the average six-year graduation rate at American colleges was just 64 percent in 2020, meaning that 36 percent of students took even longer to finish school or didn't graduate at all. This shouldn't be surprising. In 2021, 75 percent of high school students who took the ACT exam scored so low they failed to meet minimal college readiness benchmarks in English, math, reading, and science. But in 2021, 43 percent of high school seniors immediately enrolled in a four-year college upon graduation."

"Most colleges in America accept the majority of their applicants—including those whose academic profiles indicate a high likelihood of dropping out. According to a Pew Research Center analysis of over 1,300 colleges and universities, 53 percent accepted more than two-thirds of applicants."