Is a J.D. a doctorate?

Really? If they teach at law schools, they don't call themselves "Doctor" but if they teach in other departments they DO?

Wow. DOUBLE wow.

That is a really depressing observation. I had cherished hopes that us JD holders were...I dunno...CLASSIER than that. Kind of a reverse status symbol sorta thing, you know?

"Oh, yes, I suppose I COULD use the title but the idea is so bourgois..." (in an upper crust accent) "Titles are important I suppose to SOME people, you know, but really, Daddy wouldn't have approved..."

I do understand, though, that the JD is treated as a terminal degree at the schools you mention?

 

Re: DoA

Except that those with a morbid sense of humor may interpret DoA as "Dead on Arrival."

John

 

Yes, the JD was treated as a terminal degree for the purposes of salary and advancement.

Tony

 

Not to be confused with the ABA accredited Lincoln Law School in San Jose California (evening law school). I believe they’ve applied for RA accreditation as well.

“Lincoln is accredited by the Committee of Bar Examiners of the State Bar of California. The Law School makes no representation to any applicant that prior to graduation of any matriculating student the School will be approved by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC).”

 

I'm okay with those at the tops of their professions (like holders of the J.D. degree) being recognized in a university environment to the same level as those holding academic doctorates.

As long as the distinction between a first professional doctorate and an academic doctorate is understood, I'm cool. But let's not forget the remarkable differences between a law curriculum and one that leads to the Ph.D., Ed.D., or D.B.A.

 

As explicity stated on their web page, Lincoln Law School is *not* ABA accredited. Their sole accreditation comes from the Committee of Bar Examiners of the State Bar of California.




Tom Nixon

 

You’re correct Tom- I misspoke. The last time I checked Lincoln was applying for WASC and not ABA accreditation.

 

Rich Douglas

Quite so. There is a REASON that law schools do not call their degree Ph.D. and that is, the JD is NOT a Ph.D. I, for one, do not like to see JD holders use the title"Doctor" even in an academic setting whereas I am quite willing to address PhDs and EdDs by that title.

However, I will suggest that though the JSD is ALSO not a PhD, it is closer than the JD and JSD holders are entitled to be called "Doctor".

 

All I know is...............

That it was a royal pain in the ass to get my J.D.

Catagorize it what you will but I cannot for the life of me imagine having to work as hard for a Doctorate as I did for my J.D. More tedius and time consuming perhaps, but harder? I don't think so.

Having written this I realize the intense work that is required for the Doctorate and accord the proper respect to those that attain the degree.

 

If we consider Doctorate as the terminal degree and superior to a Master's degree, then JD is not. because one needs a JD to proceed to LLM. S.J.D is consider a terminal Doctorate degree in law.

Law schools used to award LLB as the first degree in laws, but then law schools wanted to emulate other professional schools where the first degree is a doctorate [not a terminal degree type of doctorate] such as medical or dental schools. So the LLB was supplanted by a JD. Old timers with an LLB may trade up to a JD if they want on payment of a fee. Many diehards kept their LLBs however.

 

After speaking to some of my JD friends about this, one of them informed me that he did know of a JD who had "Doctor" put on his business cards. This guy was always a little hesitant to swap cards with other JD's but seemed to enjoy handing them out to "regular folk." An intereting observation is that this guy was also a personal injury attorney.

 

A good Friend of mine is a JD, with two LLM Degrees, one in Military Law, another in International Law. He teaches for Embry-Riddle and U of Oklahoma, and they both encourage him do go by Dr. McDoe (Not really McDoe, but you know what I mean).

He has a lot of education and can probably teach in most Law Schools, let alone specialty law courses in other programs. I say they can use Dr., especially if they have gone on and gotten the Master's degree they need post-doctorate. A little backwards, but it makes sence to me. The JD should probably be called a JM.

How many law professors really go on to get a D.S.J, Ed D, or PHd? I've never been (and will probably never go) to law school and honestly don't know.

 

Yes! The JD is a "practice" doctorate!

 

Am I missing something? Why was this 9 year-old thread resurrected? The Juris Doctorate is a first-professional degree, which is different than a research doctorate. Most colleges an universities treat faculty with a J.D. just as they would treat a Ph.D., DBA, Ed.D., etc. for the purpose of rank and salary.

 

Here's a more interesting question: is an LL.B. (Bachelor of Laws) a doctorate ?

Many older attorneys, including several current members of the Supreme Court, have LL.B. degrees -- not the J.D.

 

I was just reading about this in the VCCS faculty manual. Here's a blurb -

Degrees such as M.D., D.D.S., D.V.S., and J.D. are normally equivalent
either to the master’s or specialist degrees and must be evaluated on the
basis of the number of years or credits of applicable graduate study. For
appointment and promotion purposes, the First Professional Degrees may
be regarded as equivalent to the earned doctor’s degree if these degrees
include seven years or 84-90 post-baccalaureate semester credit hours in
actual classroom instruction.

-Matt

 

Holy thread necromancy, Batman! A nine year old thread!

 

But one can also do a JD as a first degree. It's certainly not the norm in the US today, but the ABA does not forbid it, and so some ABA-approved schools explicitly allow it. Like this one:

Furthermore, it is well known that American law schools used to swap the LL.B. degrees of older alumni for J.D. degrees upon request. In fact, Canadian law schools still do this. So aren't the two degrees equivalent ?

 

That raises an interesting question....how can a degree that one can attain without earning a Bachelor's degree ever be considered a "doctoral degree", which is supposed to be the pinnacle of higher education? How many other doctoral programs (Ph.D., Ed.D, D.B.A., D.P.A., Psy.D., etc.) will accept candidates with no undergraduate degree, never mind a Master's degree?

My opinion is, which is just that....an opinion. I highly suspect that lawyers and the ABA got really pissed-off that their law school degrees were being perceived as "lesser" degrees than true doctorates, so they lobbied the ABA, which of course went along with something to pad their member's nests, and now we have the J.D. degree.

Okay....if the J.D. is a true doctoral degree, then how should we label the LL.M. and S.J.D. degrees? A doctoral degree is supposed to be the highest academic achievement for a school, and the J.D. is supposed to be a doctoral degree, so how do they explain the LL.M. and S.J.D. degrees?