"formal doctoral equivalency"

These instances (e.g. Mr. Nowak) don't seem to be the sort of thing you can just enrol for, at will. It's the University's decision. If they want you, for a teaching role that requires a doctorate, this is, hopefully, a way (at THEIR option) to "declare" you equivalent to one, by a legitimate process. It's not like signing up for a prior learning portfolio at the Big 3. It's like the Ministry. You have to be summoned. You go only when you "get The Call."

Might work in strictly limited numbers, as a voluntary option for some students who have advanced knowledge, but no study in a formal doctoral program at all - but there are ramifications I can't even begin to know about. If the idea was floated, there'd be a rush of people who THINK they have doctoral knowledge, I'm sure. I really dunno --- not my call. Don't we create enough PhDs by the normal process? Some say we turn out too many. Quite a few of the people who say that are PhDs (or PhD dropouts) themselves.

 

Sorry. His name is Hank Nuwar. My apologies.

 

The Spanish degree equivalency process seems similar to the VAE process in France but with no in person testing or defense. If I recall correctly, the VAE process was not that popular among Degreeinfo members. May fake VAE programs sprung up. However in the US, credentials evaluators, universities, federal and state governments recognize the VAE degrees with the notable exception of the state of Oregon. It would be interesting to see how these Spanish equivalence doctoral degree certificates would be viewed here in the US. Of course if one already has a U.S doctoral degree there would be no reason to obtain a Spanish equivalency unless I guess you wanted to work in Spain.

Johann I also spelled his name wrong in my first post so I'll take the blame No apology needed -it was my mistake!(or typo)

 

The fake ones were, naturally, unpopular. They still are. The real ones - I don't think there was any prejudice against them - hardly any, at least. They were known to be well-supervised and applicants examined by competent authorities. The bulk of genuine VAE awards were not complete degrees, though it was certainly possible to earn one that way. Many VAE awards were non-degree, vocationally oriented.

Having a piece of paper re-evaluated as a genuine Doctorate in Spain (or wherever else one is not going to live or work) does not seem useful to me, unless one likes wall-hangers. I'd think, outside of Spain, most credential evaluators would be VERY hesitant to give a doctoral equivalency to a secondary, degree-looking paper that was issued without in-person testing, defense etc. It's taking the word of somebody, who took the word of someone else. Not a very rigorous standard.

But US applicants should not panic. We know at least two firms that would likely give the cert any standing asked for.

 

I agree. In North America, those are more likely to be "PhD by Publication, plus other work" programs. While or after you do some coursework etc. you start publishing. When you get to the required number of published papers, you graduate.

UK does have some pure PhD by publication programs. I know Oxford and University of Portsmouth both have provisions for such degrees. (I just looked them up). I'm sure there are others.

 

Right, And not at all similar to "Beau Gus" (bogus) degrees. *
* (French - "le gus" = "the guy.")

 

I have a very close friend who taught for many years in NYC at a state institution. He was awarded Doctoral equivalency from his institution. He cannot, now, claim a doctoral degree. It is based upon specific criteria in that organization and isn't rocket science.

 

I don't get to make the call, but if I did -- I'm all for such restrictions on these equivalencies. What a person has to know and demonstrate varies widely, depending on the institution and subject matter. The awards are an in-house thing and not designed as stand-alone degrees.

I'm content with the equivalencies staying this way. I don't believe there should be a "laddering" process from equivalency-to-degree.
Some people think otherwise and I was just sounding off on the differences and speculating... and pontificating as I usually do. I have no doubt your friend's award was properly conferred and served its purpose well. Glad he received it.

 

I suspect the institution has different pay and/or promotion paths for those who hold a doctorate, hence the "equivalency." It is not a doctorate and certainly isn't a hard currency.

 

Agreed. It's more like company scrip, in the old days. Good only in one place, but quite useful there.

And yes - we're mostly agreed - it's not a doctorate. Or they'd call it one. They don't. It's an "equivalency."
Some were speculating on ways to get from equivalency to (shortcut?) doctorate. I don't think that's such a great idea.

 

There's a Chronicle of Higher Education report that says 360,000 of the 22 million Americans with graduate degrees are receiving food stamps or other kinds of public assistance. I'm against anything that might lead to MORE people in this very bad situation, so please - no more talk of converting equivalencies into "real" (?) doctorates. Do the math.

https://www.npr.org/2012/05/15/152751116/why-so-many-ph-d-s-are-on-food-stamps#:~:text=In 2010, the report says,on this type of aid.

 

GED: Good Enough Doctorate

 

I did the math: 1.6%. That's in the margin, where people temporarily fall through the cracks. (Getting laid off, medical problems, etc.) I doubt seriously it's a problem related to their education levels, or an indication of their long-term social status.

 

You did indeed and yes, I think 1.6% can be considered "in the margin." I'm still against making potential shortcuts to genuine doctorates out of these, which some advocate. By imbalances in numbers, it could bring about a higher ratio of un- or under-employed Doctorate-holders and then, the margin might really overflow. I don't think any process, that threatens to lead to even greater heights of credential inflation, is in any way desirable.

And any "Bratislava Escuela de Negocios" or other Spanish-Czech "top-up / pop-up Doctorates" or whatever - I'm against them too - for pretty much the same reason.

 

…currently doing another graduate degree or a fellowship…

 

i.e. flooding the market.

 

If it's causing them to be on public assistance, maybe they should re-consider.

 

The number of people pursuing secondary doctorates or masters degrees that put them on social assistance is probably very low.

The situation of postdocs being paid poverty wages is its own issue, though.

 

Well, according to the report - low, arguably. But 1.6 % of grad degree holders on public assistance is certainly significant. Educationally, these people are the cream of the crop. They're not able to support themselves. What went wrong? From the report:

"360,000 of the 22 million Americans with graduate degrees are receiving food stamps or other kinds of public assistance."