a new film https://www.the74million.org/new-film-unlikely-shows-how-higher-ed-sets-up-low-income-students-for-failure-and-how-some-educators-are-helping-them-succeed/
You know, it's funny, I run into a lot of people who think that if they send their kids to a top tier school that they will succeed because of all of the positive networking they will do. I think those people dramatically overestimate how much networking gets done across socioeconomic lines. Rich kids hang out with rich kids. Middle class kids tend to hang out with middle class kids. You might take a class with a mix of people. But the ones you will know years later tend to align more closely with your own background. Obviously, there are exceptions. Athletics and Greek Life can cause a bit more of a mix. But that's still a minority of students. The upper class doesn't rely on the power of their degree to get a job. They have a strong network in place before they even went to Freshman orientation. If Dad is a hedge fund manager, then you'll be able to get into the industry much easier than a person with the same degree who has no connection to that world. Dad the hedge fund manager has a network of hedge fund contacts that the middle class kid's dad simply doesn't have. While I'm all about the college education, I also think we do people, particular in lower income brackets, a great disservice by pushing college at all cost over trade education. You have people busting their butts to get degrees in anything hoping for the movie ending that it will mean the difference between success and poverty. Meanwhile, a six month course in welding could result in me putting them to work in a job that starts in the mid $40k area. "College isn't for everyone" was, when I was a student, most unfortunately used as an insult. It was the thing teachers said to someone who was underperforming in school and didn't look like they'd hack it in college. Then they'd get shuffled off to inferior VoTech programs that in no way prepared students to earn a living wage post-graduation. Fortunately, I feel like in some areas the degree inflation issue is starting to turn. Many people are realizing that ANOTHER degree won't solve their problems and the crippling debt associated with ridiculous tuition is starting to get people to rethink the old narrative. It would be cool to see the film. Unfortunately I fear it will just further the same ridiculous narrative; the way out of poverty is to study at a very pricey private school and get a degree studying literally anything. A longwinded way of saying the oft disproven advice "Study whatever interests you, money will follow." Meanwhile, the guy who built the cabinets for my kitchen has a degree from Dartmouth.
I agree with everything you've written, especially the bold areas that are basically just summing your post up. So some of the old adages are true, "It's not what you know, but who you know" and "College isn't for everyone" (insults aside from the 60's and 70's). And the over-educated handyman as an oxymoron is sometimes true as well (Back in the '80's I hired a guy to do some handyman work and to attempt to impress me proceeded to tell me multiple times how he had a bachelors in sociology. It was like he was embarrassed to do handyman work since he was an educated person, whereas all I cared about was if he was indeed able to fix what I needed fixing). There will always be those that are more skilled mechanically and technically and thank goodness for them, especially if they're honest. My mechanic, with two thriving shops, makes more money in some months than I'll ever make in a year. And remarkably, because some in the repair business think otherwise, he doesn't have to rip people off to make a very good living because he treats his customers fairly. And there will always be the intellectuals challenging their particular industry and making the rest of us reconsider what we thought we already knew. But I digress. The point that I'm trying to make is is that we all have our own talents and are interdependent upon one another. It's rare when you have a business person that can do it all (i.e. CEO, CFO, COO, IT, etc.). But as a business person you need these entities to work together to run an organization and if you're a small business person you hire out the best you can afford or you soon go back to working for others instead of yourself. My mechanic doesn't have a degree in mechanical engineering nor does he want or need one. He doesn't keep you waiting for your car while he's studying for his midterms in Physics. He is exactly where he needs to be, to help others that need to be elsewhere. So maybe it's time as a society that we get away from the notion that there should always be a pecking order when it comes to occupations, white or blue collar, professional or non-professional, intellectual or non-intellectual and realistically realize that Johnny is not going to be a rocket scientist or for that matter be a good mechanic. But he can do something well and we must help him find out what that is.
Every time one of these discussions comes up, someone always says that not everyone is cut out for college. That is true, but why is this the first thing that comes to mind when talking about the poor? Is this to say that children who come from economically disadvantaged homes are inherently dumb? Is this to say that poor people should be limited to blue collar jobs? The root causes of high dropout rates among poor students are poor academic preparation in K-12 and financial and family problems that make it difficult to stay in college. Is the solution to these problems to convince every poor kid that he/she should only learn a trade and leave higher academic aspirations to middle and upper class kids? That sounds like advocating for a pecking to me. Leave the blue collar jobs for the poor, and reserve the professional careers for everyone who was lucky enough to be born well-off. My opinion is that the solutions should directly address the problems.
All labor is honorable and you can make good money in the skilled trades. Just ask Kiz about the economic potential of welders. But, for the most part, those who work from the neck up tend to make more money than those who work from the neck down. Good night!
Sounds like Calvin Coolidge - "All work is ennobling," Ted. Very misused quote. Here in Ontario, a politician was asked what he could do about the problem of foreign-trained professionals unable to work here - the engineer who is driving cab, etc. His entire answer? You guessed it: "All work is ennobling." No it dangety well isn't. Skilled trades will certainly make one a good living, I agree --- but ALL work? Nope - I've had a couple of jobs that were demeaning - not ennobling - but then again, I don't think ANYTHING could ennoble me. I'm nobility-proof. If all work is ennobling, how come the nobility never does any? https://www.recruiter.com/i/if-work-is-so-ennobling-why-is-it-the-last-thing-the-nobility-ever-does/
to your point https://www.marketwatch.com/story/an-increasing-number-of-colleges-are-unaffordable-for-low-income-students-2018-11-01
Once upon a time I was driving though Atlanta on my way from Northern Virginia to Florida, when my brakes started making a horrible grinding noise. Within a few miles I happened to pass a place called "Just Brakes", so I took my cue from fate and stopped there to get them to fix it. It was a slow day for them and the job took a while, so I ended up talking for a while with the brake mechanic on duty. At one point I told him I worked with computers, and he remarked that by comparison he didn't have a very important job. I said, "Are you kidding? If I mess up it means some cash register doesn't work at the post office, and people just check out at the next counter. If you mess up it means people could die. Your job is a hell of a lot more important than mine!" The point is, perhaps demeaning and ennobling are in the eye of the beholder?
Statistically, leaping from lower middle class to upper middle class is unlikely. The leap from true poverty to, say, medical school is, of course, possible for individuals. For people in that financial situation as a whole? It isn't realistic. And I don't see why it is offensive to say "Hey, instead of getting a degree in sociology and taking on unsustainable levels of debt to get there, go and learn a trade and make a solid middle class living." We already have a pecking order. And we already tried prescribing "everyone goes to college!" as a solution. The result is that the skilled trades are hurting for people and we have throngs of kids from the middle class and below with degrees who are in a worse financial position than their parents were. They, however, also have debt and a sense that being "limited to blue collar jobs" is something shameful. So we dissuade people from getting the training that leads to jobs that can actually give them the financial independence to lead productive lives. And those college degrees? Well, since employers know there is a glut of graduates out there, we can slap a bachelors requirement onto the most menial office jobs. Because someone with a degree would rather make $9/hr in a cubicle than make $45k with a welding torch. My opinion is that a student's desire to improve their financial condition is noble. But they should take realistic steps to improving that condition rather than thinking that college will make all of their dreams come true. There are poor kids out there who have the smarts to stick to it and eventually get a medical degree. But they are the exception, not the rule. If I were economically disadvantaged I'd want my kids to do better than me. Hell, I'm middle class and I want that. If I knew that my kids could have a dramatically improved financial state by attending a trade school, I would absolutely be offering the option. Particularly if financial limitations meant that living in a dorm, finding suitable housing in another city during unpaid internships and the sheer poverty of our family made their graduation from university less likely. The unreliable outcomes for college graduates reinforce that concern further. For a recent graduate of most degree programs (engineering, nursing, accounting and a few others are the obvious exceptions), their future is uncertain. Their earning potential is uncertain. For a recent HVAC technician grad? They'll get a job. A good job and be off and running while their classmate from college is still protesting cafeteria prices. The real question should be why we feel that the trades are shameful. Because that's really what is being said here. How could we do such a thing as try to force the poor into these truly reprehensible jobs when they could be going to college instead? Want to directly address a problem? I'd start with that attitude. NOTE: Sanantone made a huge show of blocking me some time ago so I am aware she may not see this reply.
No, Ted. I just thought you might be quoting one, not becoming one. As long as you're talking Yiddish here, zei gezunt! (May you) be healthy.
Unfortunately, I can see all posts when I'm not logged in. There is nothing wrong with blue collar work. It should be considered by everyone regardless of their socioeconomic background because, to be honest, there are middle and upper class people who aren't cut out for college. Poor kids who have the aptitude and interest should pursue a college degree. Sociology is not the only option for poor kids. However, I will say this as a minority woman from an economically disadvantaged background. Minority women disproportionately end up at expensive, for-profit schools that are vocational and 4-year. At the vocational schools, the honest truth is that most women are not going to study welding and plumbing. They're going to study cosmetology, medical assisting, office administration, and, this might be a surprise to some, also criminal justice-related subjects that lead to low-paying jobs and high underemployment rates. They're going $10k, $20k, $30k in debt to earn less than $15 per hour. I was very close to enrolling at a for-profit, vo-tech school. Fortunately, I did some research and found out that the program would only qualify me to become a limited X-ray technician. Because the school was nationally accredited, I wouldn't be able to transfer the credits to a community college program that would lead to full licensure. Another thing to take into consideration is that most vo-tech programs are not convenient. I would have loved to have completed a healthcare program at my local community college, but my work schedule would not allow it. This is why so many working class adults are attracted to online programs. Well, you can't really learn how to be a good electrician or welder online. In the end, I'm glad that I earned my social science degree. It has kept me employed in middle class jobs. Yes, I am above average academically, but I'm not just above average among people who grew up poor. I'm above average among all Americans. I'm happy that I didn't listen to people telling me I couldn't do this or that simply because I was born poor. What people need is more financial education. If you're working full-time and attending school online, there is no need to go into deep debt. The max Pell Grant award is nearly $6k per year. That covers two-thirds to three-quarters of the tuition at many public schools. When something is reasonably attainable, I have the philosophy of informing people how they can do things instead of telling them that they can't because I want to be intellectually lazy.
Or aren't cut out for 'white collar' jobs which can be more political than productive. A virtue of much blue collar work is a tangible, rather than theoretical, result. There is no question of having accomplished something. Beginning with what was called Home Economics. For all this time and not just for females.
This is possibly true but not necessarily true. If you sit at a desk processing insurance claims there is no sense of "political." This also is possibly true but not necessarily true. If you are working on an assembly line tightening a nut onto a bolt there is no real sense of tangible accomplishment. It's relatively fast-paced and relatively boring.
There's also a misconception that everyone is capable of doing every blue collar job. Some blue collar jobs require physical abilities not everyone has. Many blue collar jobs require decent spatial intelligence; some of them even require a certain level of mathematical intelligence.
I agree. I've done my share of 'simple' jobs and have seen that experience and specific talent can make a difference not noticeable to outsiders. And I don't assume a lack of intelligence in someone mopping a floor.
