Superiority Complex?

That is one of those questions that if you have to ask it is probably not much help to answer. The Merriam Webster definition follows.

Main Entry: elit·ism
Pronunciation: A-'lE-"ti-z&m, i-, E-
Function: noun
Date: 1947
1 : leadership or rule by an elite
2 : the selectivity of the elite; especially : SNOBBERY 1 <elitism in choosing new members>
3 : consciousness of being or belonging to an elite
- elit·ist /-'lE-tist/ noun or adjective

Being ruled solely by an elite and snobbery are not positive things. Many (most?) may not belong to the elite but may produce the majority of production and acheivement in a Society. Great achievements may come from the lowest of a group. It is much better to value each for what the bring rather than judge and make assumptions.

 

Re: Re: Bruce...example

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It wasn't too long ago that most of The Gang here at Degreeinfo thought -- John Bear included -- that Northcentral didn't have a chance, -- as in ZERO -- at gaining RA. Now virtually all of The Gang has jumped on the NCU bandwagon and is now reporting NCU to be a serious contender for RA.

North, this response is not directed to you per se.

Keep in mind, Rich Douglas is now affiliated with the unaccredited market of higher education. I wonder if [he] takes his students, aside, and explains the risk they are taking by matriculating at an unaccredited institution? After all, with all-of-the DL bachelor and masters program available via DL no needs to take this risk, have I heard this a thousand times before?

Nothing personal meant Rich!

Regards, Wes

 

Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

No, I don't. That is the responsibility of the administration. I teach classes. And there is a world of difference between a school on an accreditation track and one who has simply not done it for 25 years.

 

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Agreed, but the fact remains a school on an accreditation track remains an unaccredited institution, who may or may not, achieve accreditation. Why choose an unaccredited institution when countless accredited options exist? How does it feel to know that your courses aren't worth the paper the transcript is written on? Just playing devil's advocate, here. I believe whole-heartedly that you teach an excellent course but your hard work won't transfer to RA credit for any of your students. This is bullsh.t because I truly believe you depart a semester's worth of knowledge to your students, but hey, they [your students] are probably just taking courses for the personal growth of it, right?

I believe the American higher education system has a major flaw and it's called voluntary accreditation.

Regards, Wes

 

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First, the students at VIU are pretty convinced the education and credential they receive will suit them.

Second, the accreditation process in the U.S. has been a boon to innovation, despite the accreditors themselves! The U.S. leads the way in innovative, nontraditional programs. (A nod the the Australians is appropriate here.) I believe a lack of central control leads to this. While there are cosiderable grounds for criticizing the RAs about nontraditional higher ed., there have been great strides made over the past two decades. But there needs to be some semblance of quality control. The states do not provide this, even in California. Any knowledgeable observer of California's unaccredited universities over the years knows this. The wild-and-wooly days of "Authorized" schools is gone, but the BPPVE is in no way capable of exercising the proper controls over unaccredited schools.

Finally, the accreditors determine what is and is not a recognized university in this country. All the decrying against this doesn't change this. Hey, I like some of the unaccredited schools in California. But that doesn't change things, either.

Comparing a residential school whose intention is to pursue accreditation with CCU--or some other school operating without even a sniff of accreditation for what seems like forever--doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

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That doesn't make any sense.

Where's the flaw? That accreditation exists at all? Or that accreditation is voluntary?

The problems associated with having no accreditation are obvious. But making one form of accreditation mandatory wouldn't make non-accredited schools any more acceptable. On the contrary, it would make them illegal.

So why is Degreeinfo criticized for being skeptical of non-accredited schools when you yourself are implying that non-accredited schools should simply be forbidden?

 

The issue of accredited versus unaccredited schools interfaces with another critical element; personal and professional credibility.

Within our society regional accreditation is the standardized process for demonstrating that ones' credentials reflect a level of compliance and acceptability with established norms. Degrees granted by institutions that are RA signify to employers, colleagues and significant others that the possessor has met at least minimum standards of education that parallel guidelines and expectations of an ongoing monitoring system. In effect, it adds credence and substance to RA degrees that, in turn, reflects positively on the recipient. This is not say that there are'nt varietations in quality from one RA school to another, but that does not change the significance and benefits of this process.

Unfortunately, this is not the case with unaccredited degrees! The connotation implicit to these credentials is that they are second rate at best. More significantly they may result in a stereotyping of the possessor as one who attempted to beat the established system by not completing the necessary academic work that would have earned him a RA credential.

The ramifications are potentially serious in terms of being viewed as an person who did not have the "right stuff" to go the RA route or someone who disregards standards in order to meet their needs. It also leads to questions regarding the intentions of the individual in terms of possibly being deceptive or misleading in representing themselves as having completed studies that are commensurate with graduates from RA institutions. It also can possibly project negative impressions that can irreparably damage ones' professional image and credibility thereby adversely affecting career opportunities and colleageal recognition.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

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First, has anyone educated the students at VIU about accreditation? VIU makes no mention of accreditation that I can see from a brief review of the web site.

Second, I am not comparing CCU to VIU!

But if I were a consumer searching for a higher education institution, I would feel more confidant in a school with a 27-year history. Like it or not the BPPVE is a quality review mechanism. No studies exist to prove that the BPPVE is doing a poor job, PERIOD! Several CA Approved institutions have gone on to WASC RA and that's no easy task even according to Rich Douglas.

Many CA lawyers and Psychologists have graduated from CA Approved institutions. I am not saying that all CA Approved institutions are even adequate but I am saying that obviously the CA BPPVE boat floats.

Regards, Wes

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

Is that an opinion or a conclusion?

Regarding law schools, the BPPVE isn't the one approving them, so their successes don't weigh.

As for approval, yes, some schools have gone on to accreditation by WASC. But as I'll be noting in my doctoral dissertation, not many have. And many more have gone away or stayed put.

My opinion (not conclusion) is that the schools that have gone on to accreditation--like Fielding, Saybrook, and CIIS, not to mention residential nontraditionals like National and Golden Gate--have done so based upon their own merits. CPPVE (not BPPVE) approval was a way station on the path to accreditation. Just because the CPPVE (not BPPVE) approved both California Coast and The Fielding Institute doesn't make them comparable. Not then, not now. And the BPPVE has seen fit to approve Frederick Taylor, Pacific Western, Newport, and several other interesting schools. If I was running CCU, I'd want to distinguish my school from that bunch--not join it.

It is reasonable to conclude--not opine--that after 27 years of operating without recognized accreditation, CCU will remain what it is--unaccredited. The BPPVE goes about its consumer-protection efforts as best as it can. It's nice, but it isn't accreditation. And the schools it recognizes are not necessarily inferior, but their form of recognition is.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

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Rich, I'm glad you are aligned with an unaccredited institution. Everything you say about CCU is true. Even though the BPPVE does not monitor the CA law schools a system very similiar and with equal recognition or lack-thereof is in place and many of these graduates go on to pass the CA Bar.

I called VIU and asked a person named, Thamh (Asian accent) if VIU was accredited and she very quickly replied "yes, we are accredited. When asked who VIU was accredited by, Thamh didn't know. I asked her to inquire with an informed party, after apparently doing so, Thamh reported that "VIU is accredited by the Virginia Higher Education Commission -- just like every other college in Virginia."

Then I spoke with one Tarik Celik (Middle Eastern accent) who also said that VIU was accredited. However, when I asked if VIU was accredited by an organization recognized by the USDOE [he] said "no".

I asked Mr. Celik VIU made any mention of accreditation and the importance of accreditation on the VIU web site, he didn't know this answer.

VIU might become a true contender for RA, but in the mean time, really must educate at least these two employees about misleading potential customers.

Rich, your knowledge is critical to the success of this institution. I hope VIU recognizes this.

Regards, Wes

 

It's looking like we have to use a poll to resolve this argument.

 

Tarik Celik is Dean of Students. Turkish name (as are many others). Thanh Ly is secretary for the administrative staff. See http://www.viu.edu/html/faculty/facultystaff.shtml.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

Again, that doesn't make sense.

If California approval doesn't imply that an institution is "even adaquate", then in what sense can you say that "the CA BPPVE boat floats"?

What is it that you want us to believe about the BPPVE?

 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

I'm glad a direct question got a direct answer. The school is a startup, approved by Virginia to offer degrees in several areas. (I'm not "aligned" with them, as Wes suggests. I am an adjunct assistant professor, teaching a couple of classes each semester. I have no other role with the university.) VIU has about 100 students at present, but expects to be over 200 this fall. They offer no DL programs. There really is no basis for comparing it to any of the long-running, unaccredited, DL schools.

I do not know if they will be successful in their accreditation bid. But they've brought on board people experienced with this process, and the board of directors includes people experienced with higher education in Virginia at high levels.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

I agree primarily because it opens the door for degree mills to play their con. I believe that it's fair to call this a major flaw.

On the other hand, it is also a strength because the lack of centralized control can encourage invention and foster efficiency.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bruce...example

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Rich, with-all-due-respect, it took you approximately one year, maybe more to figure out that MIGS wasn't on the up-and-up. Don't miss interpret me, I am not comparing VIU to MIGS nor am I saying that VIU will or will not obtain accreditation. I am just calling to your attention the similiarities in your affliation or your stated lack-thereof. You used to make report similiar responses when discussing your doctoral matriculation at/with MIGS.

To me teaching courses for any college is an alignment to some degree.

Regards, Wes

 

If any poster contends that unaccredited DL schools are of neglible value than that same standard should apply to any unaccredited traditional brick and mortar school as well. This is especially relevant if the school has not clearly stipulated its intent and time frame to pursue candidacy status eventuating in regional accreditation!

Objectively, Wes has made a very valid point! We have devoted an entire discussion forum specifically to MIGS that has entailed an inordinate amount of our attention and to what end! Yes, initially it was interesting and stimulating but after a year, quite ennervating!

There appears to be no rational need to repeat that experience.

 

I'm confused....

I got dragged into this because someone mistook the VIU I teach at with another institution.

I don't understand the relevance of MIGS to the discussion. I barely understand the relevance of CCU to the same.

An MBA from VIU (at this point) is about as valuable as an MBA from CCU. Both are unaccredited and from state-approved schools.

VIU has been operating for less than two years. They are now planning their accreditation application.

VIU doesn't offer DL programs of any kind. All programs are classroom-based.

This is a perfectly normal and routine start-up for a university.

It seems daft to use this to grind one's axe about other issues, but go ahead....

 

Re: I'm confused....