My DeVry on-line instructor training

When I taught high school I recall the vice principal coming in to my class (more like barging in unannounced) and giving a talk to the students. She used phrases like "you are our customers". Apparently this was the new buzz word and philosophical approach of the moment. I sort of understand it but didn't care for it. I can't say it's wrong; it's just that the term student works better for me.

Telling high schoolers that they're customers and we are there to serve them doesn't help with the whole authority image I believe a teacher is supposed to have.

 

The term customers is popping up more in the K to 12 arena. In my school district we just went through training and they told all of us to remember that the students are like customers and we function as an entire body like a business. I think the customer focus is due to the lack of what is seen as customer service skills by the teachers, faculty, staff, administrators, etc... I do not think students are customers either, but as my superintendent put it, we all would not have jobs if we did not have students, just as a business would not exist if it did not have customers.

At one of the universities where I am a consultant, they use the term "course participants or class participants" and not students. I did ask my grade chair about this change in terminology and his response was that when people think of students they think of K to 12 and that the word students just does not fit the full time working or nontraditional person who is also attending university or college.

 

Personally, I don't mind if a school refers to me as a customer. After all, the word customer is defined as "a person, company, or other entity which buys goods and services produced by another person, company, or other entity."

As a student, I am paying for a service: I want a school to provide me with an education and guideance on my way toward earning a degree. How many times have you read on this very message board that a particular school has either good or poor "customer service"? I know I have seen that very phrase very often here from other students...er, customers.

I think the schools that miss the boat, whether they have DL programs or not, are those who take their students for granted. I think if more schools adopted a mentality of providing good customer service (answering emails in a timely manner, returning phone calls, providing answers to questions about assignments) they would be better off and would have more students.

 

To me the use of the term "customer" indicates that there is a contractual relationship in which the "customer" is entitled to a certain high level of service. If I enrolled in a school and was subsequently referred to as a customer then this would make me think that the school recognizes their obligations to me and is willing/able to fulfill them.

There's no romance here kids. It's a business deal.

 

Well I guess since the customer is always right this will make grading a lot easier, just give out A's. By default, whatever they do is right, and no one complains about getting an A, so high customer satisfaction and high customer retention to boot. Moreover, I will always get great feedback! Now I see the light!

 

Unfortunately, it is not a secret that many adjuncts give As to compensate low quality of instruction. My problem with Devry and other online schools is that they only look at the student evaluation, there is no effort on their side to have people from their staff to monitor instructor performance.

At one online school that I worked for, I got lower than average feedbacks as I was failing students for cheating and poor quality. When I got a warning from the school, I challanged them and asked them to monitor my performance and tell me what was wrong.

The manager audited my class and couldn't find anything wrong, he told me that perhaps my knowledge was not as expected (This was as an introductory class in network and I hold a master in electrical engineering) so he assigned me to another class. I learned my lesson and lowed standards and evaluations came higher than average.

I agree with you in the sense that too much power to students can compromise quality. Students should give their opinion but management should not use this as the only benchmark for evaluation otherwise the quality of education suffers.

I also teach some online classes at a Canadian government school, in this case we are not required to keep above average student evaluation scores and the management monitors the instructor performance on a regular basis. I believe it might take more effort from the administration but a balance of performance monitoring and student evaluations should make a happy mix. Students with too much power are dangerous for a good quality of education.

 

I would agree with this definition! It says 'buys' not 'earns'. A customer buys products or services a student earns their education.

"I earned my degree," not "I bought my degree". The people who receive degrees, through self-definition, are students not customers.

 

In agreement with your points I have found that the majority of students enjoy good feedback and challenge in the classroom. Most good students want this type of interaction, while some other students who are not doing as well seem to want to be treated more like a customer, and then want to complain when challenged. In my limited experiences anyway.

 

I agree with this to a point. There are many aspects, in the administration of students in education, in which students are treated as cattle and not "clients/customers". We have all heard horrors stories of financial aid or communication issues, in this vain I believe students should be treated as "customers". After all without their enrollment there would be no school.

However, when dealing with academic issues: grading, assignments, time lines these should all be handled in a different way. Not to say there should not be respect for the student but they cannot "buy" or complain their way to a better grade, this helps no one.

I am curious to know if this was a specific video in regards to instructors or a more generic video that is required for all employees. If David felt it was not the latter I agree with his stand.

 

Students on campus complain about a grade received on an assignment or test/quiz/mid-term/final on a regular basis and some are successful at getting the grade raised. This is not a phenomenon unique to distance education.

 

This to me makes an excellent argument in favor of for profit schools. Also Kizmet has an excellent point, it's all contracted out in the exchange of tuition for an agreed upon service. In my student experience the worst treatment and service I've seen was from 2 different non profit schools and 1 for profit. Also the best service I have received has been from 1 for profit and 1 non profit. I think it's totally an institutional cultural thing.

Lastly I also disagree with the understanding that somehow non profit is more noble than for profit. The idea of non profit meaning "nobody profits" is misleading. In fact a tenured professor who teaches 3 classes a week (or his aids do) so that he/she can do research (or have their aids do it) as being somehow to the betterment of society as a whole might just be an antiquated system that has been exploited over these last few decades by highly compensated professors who produce relatively little in return. But that's just my humble, non-teaching, non-doctoral degree holding opinion.

That being said, good on you DLady for sticking to your personal ethical beliefs. That takes a stronger person than seems to be the norm these days.

 

Amen to that! I agree with you 100%.

 

Whoa...wait a minute. Now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say a thing about "buying a degree". That's ridiculous. What I am paying for, and expecting, is a certain level of SERVICE. I don't expect anyone to hand out A's or just give me a degree because I am paying tuition. B&M schools don't...so why should I expect that from a DL school?

Personally, I think you are reading WAY too much into a school's use of the word "customer" (unless there is more to the story we don't know). Face it...schools are selling a product, and that product is the online or distance delivery of courses, not grades or degrees. When students attend any school, what are they paying for? An education, and the delivery of same. If I felt a school was simply selling me a degree, I would withdraw immediately. It's a point of personal pride that I have worked hard and earned every grade I have ever received. If a student does not like the quality of the education they are receiving at a school, they are free to vote with their pocketbooks and go elsewhere.

Do you think state universities and colleges are not concerned with money? They may not use the word "customer", but trust me...that's how they view students. To think otherwise is being a bit naive.

 

I do not think there is distance education argument here, is there? Given that DeVry has both B&M and distance facilities I do not see a reason to even mention it. I do agree with your assertion, however, a better arguement might be made for whether this occurs more at For-Profits which, I believe, is where the issue(student as customer) arises.

 

I wanted to comment on this particular thread from the moment it started, but I opted to see what kind of reception it received. I've been very fortunate to have participated on both sides of the DeVry/Keller spectrum. I've taken online classes at a part of my MBA curriculum. I've now parlayed that experience into adjunct opportunities with DeVry.

I think there is a certain sensitivity to the term "customer" especially when you are working in for-profit education. It certainly should not be inferred that students are getting a "pay to play" scenario whereby they should get everything they want (no freebie's on the grades). Non-profit and for-profits are all focused on the same think--provided quality customer service to those entering their halls. I think in this particular case that we should not expect anything extra from for-profits because they use the "customer" term than we would from our non-profit counterparts who opt to use student.

I can tell you that in my project management and quality management class we take time to discuss the critical elements of customer service. I often tell my classes that excellent quality means "meeting or exceeding customer expectations". I think that really is the focus of the online training. I know that from the B&M standpoint these are the only elements that we stress. The proof comes thru in the course evaluations. Students will be "brutally" honest if they feel that you met or exceeded their expectation.

 

When I enroll in a school I pay them money (both FP and NFP schools). In return, I expect them to be responsive to my questions in a timely manner, that I will be respected and treated fairly and that I will receive a quality education from a qualified professional.

I don't expect any grade that I haven't earned but I feel that the expectations above make me just as much a customer of a school as well as a student.

 

I am not putting words in your mouth I am agreeing with the definition you posted. You used the term buys not earns to define customer. I simply stated that I believe degrees are earned not bought, showing that your definition supports my argument not yours.

For example:
I am not the customer of a police office that gives me a ticket, I am a citizen.
I am not the customer of a doctor, I am their patient.
I am not the customer of a Professor, I am their student.

The term customer is not synonymous with concern for money that is a strawman argument.
Expecting service is not synonymous with customer that is a strawman argument.

Education is not a product it is an evaluated process with many checks and balances.

 

I believe that you have a right to the expectations you outline as a Student of the school.

 

I agree that in general the term students, citizens and patients should be used (if for no other reason than to avoid confusion). However from a quality of service perspective they are still customers (perhaps your DeVry trainer has taken a ISO 9000 or a quality of service course). For example here is a definition from Stanley Brown (Total Quality Service):
The receiver or purchaser of a product or service.

Here are some examples of good and bad customer service I have seen as a student:

Poor: At a 4-year college – For Economics 101 we had an Asian professor – the class only picked up on about 1 word out of 3 – the students had to get together after his class to figure out what he said, what the assignments were, and what the course requirements were (25 years ago).

Poor: My local CC has DL courses – trying to sign up on line is impossible – I had to visit the facility and obtain signatures from several departments – I gave up and registered completly on-line with zero bureaucracy at a more distant CC. (This Spring).

Poor: I applied for graduation, after a prolonged period I started leaving telephone messages but never received a response. I met with the department head and he found the person handling my request was on maternity leave and my application was amongst a stack of items on her desk. Result was I missed a $5000 bonus from my employer due to the delay (almost a year). (about 12 years ago).

Good: My graduate meteorology course was relatively easy but I learned a lot. The take home exam was long and took over 24 hours to complete. The instructor was very experienced (ex-USAF) and was very understandable. We went on some great field trips. (about 8 years ago)

Good: Signing up for my MAS degree was really simple – 1 page program application, The registrar visited the first class meeting of each course, collected tuition and answered general, non-course related, questions. (about 8 years ago)

Good: I signed up with NorthCentral U for the first class of their Ph.D. program. The on-line electronic library had great depth (I used it also for non-class related research). Other on-line college libraries I have used have not been much use. (about 6 years ago).

 

You're comparing apples and oranges. A school is providing quite a different service than doctors or police officers. I don't go to a doctor unless I have to, and I hope to never need the services of a police officer. However, I do shop around for the best school and educational experience which will suit my needs. As a student (or customer, whatever) I expect a certain level of service and a quality education. As the school's "customer", this is what I am purchasing. No amount of explanation of my point will convince you otherwise, but you have your opinion, and that's fine. And no sir, it is not a strawman argument. Go back and look at the definition I provided. The word "service" is quite prominently used.

Out of curiosity, I searched the DegreeInfo forum for the words "customer service", just to see how many threads mentioned it. I counted 451, including this one. It would seem that distance learning students place quite a premium on customer service. Perhaps DeVry realizes this and that is why they emphasize it during their training. Just a thought.

By the way, you try NOT paying your doctor or college, and see how quickly they start treating you like a customer instead of a patient or a student.

Also, I don't want you to get the wrong idea. You haven't offended me at all. I actually enjoy the debate, which I think has brought up many valid points on both sides. I have always enjoyed reading your posts.