Call for participation in a degree wiki

Truth is an absolute defense to an accusation of libel or slander. I think you're pretty safe there vis-a-vis Robert de Sorbon and Breyer State. They are at the very best awful, disreputable schools that provide substandard education, and at the worst outright mills that should be shut down as of yesterday. Any school that hires John Dovelos or presents him with a degree can't be all that good. I don't care if Mother Teresa runs the place. And in the case of the decidedly non-state Breyer State, when they're run by the same yahoo who runs the agency by which they receive their accreditation, that ain't exactly Mother Teresa.

Robert was just worried about incurring needless legal expenses for the site. The posters seldom have much to worry about, it's the proprietors of the forum. Many mills and other unethical characters will fire off lawsuits at the drop of a hat to try and beat the private citizen into submission. They're something like the dread SLAPP suits, and they're unethical, but that doesn't stop them. So Robert was being cautious and avoiding anything tyhat might draw the fire of unstable and unsavory mills and shills who none the less are often quite proficient at finding a skid row attorney who'll pursue frivolous litigation.

Of course, there'd be no libel issues with not listing a given school. This is a private site, you can list whomever you want.

 

Count me in-

 

I think I've vaguely heard of SLAPP suits before. Could you refresh my memory?

 

You can count me in.

 

I don't know what the letters stand for. But they're a suit filed by a big bad corporation to squelch protest among private citizens. The idea being tie them up in litigation, get a restraining order, etc. Shuts them up.

At least that's my understanding, I'm no expert on them.

 

Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation

 

I would welcome a collaborative effort toward creating a comprehensive database of schools.

It may not be clear without looking at it, but the DegreeFinder database is *not* limited to schools that pay to be listed; it has several hundred programs listed in it, and at the time it was produced, the list of schools in the database was as complete as the information we had available to us, with the exception of one well-known RA school which, at the time, had such bad commentary about it on DegreeInfo that we decided not to include it.

The owners of DegreeInfo have discussed most of the issues raised here over the past 4 or 5 years, and I'll offer a couple of thoughts based on our experience and discussions:

-- You will most certainly have problems with mill operators. They are devious and will find many ways to vandalilze any WIKI created which allows the public to post. So you'll need either a group of people that are vigilant about watching new edits, or moderation of newly edited information until you're confident about the contributors.

-- Whomever said "truth is an affirmative defense to libel" has never been sued. The statement is true, but you can easily spend $100,000 using the affirmative defense to win your case... and no guarantee of getting costs back from the person or entity suing you. Discussion boards which have a large amount of public commentary that goes largely or minimally moderated are part of the DMCA "safe harbor" protection against libel and defamation actions, but I don't think a moderated Wiki would qualify. It's never been tried as far as I know, but I wouldn't want to be the test case.

-- If you use a Wiki format, and attempt to use an evenhanded, consensus or even democratic process for handling decisions on tone and evaluation criteria, you will have endless arguments with the mill apologists. I guarantee that Kennedy-Western's marketing people will fill the registration pages with bazillions of K-W grads carefully tutored in millspeak who will argue incessantly that K-W is, in fact, a wonderful school that everyone should go to. Ditto Clayton College and plenty of other unwonderfuls.

-- We (DegreeInfo) at one point considered (and are still considering) producing a database of unwonderful schools and blatantly fraudulent ones for use by law enforcement, the legal system, and similar purposes. I think that it would be a lawsuit magnet if made widely available to the general public, and would also be an unwitting marketing tool for fake schools.

-- Even though not much has been done proactively recently, it is one of our goals to get the (very outdated) DegreeFinder database updated... and in doing so, creating a process so that it can more easily be updated through input from DegreeInfo users. Whether this supplants the need for a Wiki, I can't say. However, we touched briefly on the Wiki idea about 2 years ago, and at the time decided that the hurdles of keeping the mill apologists (and simply those defending their own unwonderful credentials) were simply too much to deal with. It might be better if there were a large team of known-reliable people to screen and edit, but even then, attaining consistency will be a challenge.

DegreeInfo might be interested in providing the resources and oversight for such a project in some format, but I can also see the advantages of having it be a project completely independent of any commercial enterprise.

If anyone is interested in contacting me about this, feel free to send me a PM.

 

Good idea!!!! I'm willing to help out too.

 

I will be able to help out and give details on DL schools, and programs in Asia.

 

I said it was an "absolute defense". And it is. If you read the rest of my post, you'll see that I already SAId exactly what you're saying here. I don't disagree with you a bit.

Allow me to quote myself:

Come on, Chip, I said it already!

 

oops... sorry, I sorta skimmed the thread and missed that part

 

I'd love to help.

 

I'd love to help also - although my knowledge is limited. I am working with 3 students at my CC to get them lined up for TESC - so my knowledge is growing by the day.

Shawn

 

I can add a little moderation and logic...

I'd love to help. I agree that a Wiki, even a moderated Wiki, might make it too easy for mill operators to get their perspectives out but hopefully enough of our minds working together can make them look like diploma mills.

 

Depending on the scope of this effort, important sections could include:

• What distance education is and what it isn't
• What is a portfolio versus 'life experience'
• How to find (for those in the States) if a particular foreign school is an IRS 'eligible educational institution' for tax credit purposes

On a more anecdotal or narrative basis, DL veterans could relate:

• Overcoming employer and/or HR reluctance on recompensating for DL programs
• Maintaining motivation when studying outside a physical classroom
• Graduate program FAQs - when to consider an MBA versus a MS in project management, or how to narrow down a dissertation subject in a doctorate program
• Balancing family, work, school and sanity

Some or all of these are covered in posts or other sections of Degreeinfo. If I understand your intentions, you want to put it into one place with all the information but minus the chatter and occasional flame war. That would be useful indeed.

I would be willing to help.

 

I was looking at the website and there was an ominous warning about do not submit copyrighted material without permission. If an individual has already posted distance learning degree lists at degreeboard, degreediscussion, degreeforum, degreeinfo, Distance Education, e-learners.com, USNews.com education, etc., would re-submitting said info to wikieducator involve a violation of copyright?

 

Any school that hires John Dovelos or presents him with a degree can't be all that good. I don't care if Mother Teresa runs the place. And in the case of the decidedly non-state Breyer State, when they're run by the same yahoo who runs the agency by which they receive their accreditation, that ain't exactly Mother Teresa.


Does anyone know whatever happened to John Dovelos? He seems to have disappeared?

Rgds.