That Clown Douglas and His "Book Report"

Hola Hermano,

Which two experts "are involved" with which six unaccredited institutions? If you are talking about a situation where someone has not been "involved" in many years, then you cannot say they "are" involved (at least not honestly).

Tony

 

This gets to the issue of whether or not John or I care to forget--or reject or hide or forsake or whatever--our involvements with various unaccredited schools. The simple answer is "no."

Each school we were involved with was in its infancy.

Columbia Pacific University: John. CPU was one of the most thorough approaches to establishing an alternative university in its time. One has to look at what the other unaccredited schools were doing at the time. CPU was very solid--amidst very few other alternatives, none accredited. Hindsight is what some people use when looking at CPU--and the others.

Fairfax: John. Involved for all of 4 months, about 15 years ago. The owners sued him, for chrissakes. Yet trolls make it sound like he still runs the thing--as if he ever did.

Greenwich: John and me. But not very much me. (I'm glad about what we did at Greenwich, but I didn't do all that much.) This was the late 1980's. Some unaccredited schools were very much the alternative to traditional academe. John moved Greenwich to Hawaii because HE moved to Hawaii. A very instructive venture.

MIGS: Me and (a little) John. My (our) involvement was totally predicated on the CEU's GAAP status and its ability to award the degrees earned through MIGS. When that came into question, I left. John, whose only role was going to be that of faculty advisor to me, also left. The only disappointment there was their utter lack of ability to carry it out, coupled with lingering questions about their true relationship with the CEU and whether or not the CEU was really going to issue the degrees. (None were ever issued.)

VIU: Me. C'mon, is this even relevant? A start-up B&M school with small resources, trying to get both established and accredited. I taught some courses, but do not any longer. (Not because of their lack of accreditation; I'm just too busy.) I may or may not consult with them on their application for accreditation.

No secrets, no hiding, no big deal. Whenever I talk about these activities (mine, anyway), I always draw great interest. No one has ever expressed any concerns about them. Quite the opposite, in fact. People are sometimes fascinated about it all (especially VIU). Go figure.

 

A far cry from St. Regis et al...

Rich,
Thanks for sharing the information about you and John Bear and your "involvement" with unaccredited institutions. While I am by no means an "expert" in this area, it is rather clear that those institutions are a far cry from the criminal diploma mill ventures and their mouthpieces who constantly bring this up as a criticism of your integrity.

It is certainly true that all institutions, even good ones, must start out somewhere, and generally that means unaccredited. But the difference lies in intent - does the institution really want to teach students and add to the general good that education can bring, or does the institution just want to get rich, bilk thousands out of their hard-earned dollars, and then run for cover when the s*** hits the fan, leaving their "students" to fend for themselves in court as their fraudulent degrees explode in their faces?

Generally, I agree that the best way is RA or equivalent, or failing that nationally accredited (US). But I also am willing to consider that there are other institutions that are actually "good schools", however the problem lies with the student/graduate to prove that to future employers and colleagues, something that one does not have to worry about (at least from a legal sense) with degrees in the former category.

Keep up the good work.
- Carl

 

Re: A far cry from St. Regis et al...

John has mentioned before that there was no intent at Greenwich to attempt to become accredited. Remember, this was the late 1980's. There was simply no way such a school would be accredited. That's why some unaccredited alternatives made sense--then. But now, taking one's degree from an unaccredited school is suspect--there are simply too many accredited options available. (I'd still hold out for a few of the unique California schools Bill Dayson talks about--some of them are terrific.) That's why Greenwich might have made sense for some in 1989, but doesn't make much sense today.

VIU has always been focused on becoming accredited. It operates in a very demanding state (Virginia). But it is small and under-funded. Still, it is readying its first application. We'll see.

MIGS was never accredited or unaccredited. It had an agreement with a recognized Mexican university (or so it would seem) to conduct programs on its behalf.

 

Rich,

I have been using Bear's (and Bears') Guide for about 15 years now and have known about John's involvement with CPU, Faifax, IIAS/Greenwich and Heriot-Watt for years (as would anyone else who has read his books). You have always been very open about your experiences, which have provided valuable lessons for many of us who frequent Degreeinfo.

I must admit to being puzzled when I read posts that mention these affiliations as though they were some new revelation and deep, dark secret that you and John have been hiding. Attempts to discredit the two of you come off as rather silly when they are made by people with no credentials who make no attempt to add to the knowledge base of the field of distance learning (as the two of you have done).

As for unaccredited schools, while I have not been completely comfortable with unaccredited higher ed institutions being able to offer the same degrees as accredited ones (see the next paragraph), I have know many people (most working in non-academic positions) who have been served by their degrees from state approved schools. I also know a couple who have been "time bombed". When California Western University (now Caifornia Coast) started in 1974, there really were not a lot of other choices for someone who need a degree for job advancement or to meet minimum job requirements (or even for personal satsifaction) without going to an RA institution or slithering over to a diploma mill.

I had some personal experience years ago with an individual who misrepresented his degree from Cal Western/Cal Coast (and his two unaccredited bachelors degrees) as "fully accredited" and duped quite a few people. This was years before I discovered the "big three" and Bear's Guide, so I guess that I am a bit jaded in that respect.

As for VIU, I saw your faculty page when you were teaching there (it was nice to put a face to the name). I can attest to Virginia being a "demanding state". A good friend of mine (now deceased) was President of Southern Virginia University as it was getting established and going through the state approval/national accreditation/regional accreditation process. Virgina's requirements were pretty tough. SVU received state approval, then national accreditation by AALE and is currently working toward regional accreditation with SASC. SVU started a couple of years before VIU (VIU is working on national accreditation this year, but I do not know from which agency).

All the best,

Tony Pina
Faculty Cal State U. San Bernardino

 

Excellent post and it's so true. I can only surmise that it is done on purpose as part of an attempt at a character assassination plot based on lies and half truths. It is of concern to me though when this nonsense "invades" DegreeInfo like it did very recently. Did Police know that he was a duped pawn spreading nonsense? Or is there a more nefarious connection? It's hard to say and it doesn't really matter. This is one area that (thank goodness) our good moderators have not ever let get out of control. I assume in part because it is what destroyed the utility of aed.

 

Hello friends, sorry about my English.

Yes Sergeant (moderator), no problem.

Ok, only copy paste things. Also with citations and links.

Hey Bill, what “nefarious connection”? I can tell you some “nefarious connections that I know.

 

So Police, if you "copy and paste" lies and half truths does that make you any less a liar?

 

No apology received yet from Police, for lying about me. Still waiting.

John Bear

 

Police, I was referring to your connection to the insulting lies that you told about the good Dr. Bear. If you look at the context of my phrase that's in question, you'll notice that I first posted the least culpable possibility for your repeating the insulting lie on this forum. I then described the open ended spectrum for more culpable explanations for why you repeated the insulting lie on this forum. I finish off with my opinion of the bottom line for this question which is that where you actually do fall on this spectrum is unkown and doesn't really matter.

An epilogue to this minor mystery is that you still have not apologized to the good Dr. Bear which indicates to me that the truth of the matter is likely not at the less culpable end of the spectrum, which puts you in the more nefarious realm.

 

A copy of the RC Douglas dissertation finally arrive in Carterton, NZ, this morning. I paid $36US for it - $26 + $10 air postage, and it came from the USA. I did intend to reveal the source of the dissertation, and may eventually do this, but knowing how badly RC (and other RA fanatics) could react to such information I feel I should not yet divulge the source.
I'm looking forward to reading the dissertation and will eventually provide an honest appraisal. It is 183 pages in length - including cover and introductory pages - and a rough guesstimate on the number of words is 50,000.
Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)

 

Since it is only currently available from Rich or the college library, it isn't really a very big secret. I guess that means that Dennis and company must have been blowing wind with their ridiculous argument that Rich's dissertation wasn't available because of nefarious unknown reasons.

 

Somebody must have taken it out of the glass case and copied it.

So you are saying it's not available and then are criticizing me for saying it's not available. In the same paragraph?

 

Only three weeks ago RC assured everyone that his dissertation was not available from either Union or UMI - only available from RC himself. All of a sudden it becomes readily available? The RC dissertation availability story certainly changes hourly/daily.
Why RC attempted to keep his dissertation secret is only known to himself. But, on the otherhand he may not know?!
Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)

 

I remember Rich even telling someone a while back that they could get it through the library?

 

Considering the dissertation isn't available for purchase from any authorized source, one can only conclude that you either purchased it from a private party (illegally participating in an unlawful transfer) or just got it for free in the same fashion (also illegally receiving it). But I've given it away for free, so I don't really care. It's the charade you're putting on that is interesting. Lying to such lengths! Why bother?

Length isn't relevant, but your "guesstimate" is too high.

What is relevant is the resulting degree. But you know that already.

 

No one attempted anything of the kind. That you would even suggest such a thing points to the obvious fact that you are a fraudulent academic.

The "readily available" comment is obviously based on your false assertion that you bought a copy of it. Your unwillingness to even identify the source only adds credence to that conclusion.

No story-changing here. Switching from one fake school to another--and then from one fake degree to another at the subsequent fake school--now that's story-changing!

 

Not to mention that, in the temporary absence of its availability from UMI, I gave copies to all that requested, provided they gave a verifiable name and physical address. The only one who requested, but didn't provide a name and address, was Neil Hayes. Despite the claims of a few (or one?) anonymous trolls, no one else asked. No secrets, no other conditions. I just wanted to know who I was dealing with. I took the trouble to convert the documents to .pdf format. I took the trouble to upload and send them.

If Hayes really paid for a dissertation I've distributed freely (and, I'm sure, he could obtain from someone for free), then he's either an idiot or a liar. His pick.

 

What an incredible inane reply - completely full of totally incorrect information and quite obscene comments. It's hard to believe that such comments could possibly come from a Doctor of Philosophy, or from a person who claims to know something about education and communication.
Dr Anatidae (Knighstbridge)

 

Quite obviously RC you cannot remember what you have said from one post to the next.
Talk about switching - I seem to recall that you have been involved with far more degree-mills than I.
I now believe that you are the real fraud, one that rarely speaks the truth and that you have nothing whatever to offer DL education.
Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)