Why do so many get their doctorate when it isnt needed?

I dont know how to make my point any clearer. Several people got it, understood it, and answered it. Others seem to (deliberately?) misunderstand what I am asking in an effort to start stuff. At no time did I say getting a doctorate is bad or a waste. Nor did I point to anyone on here. If you are taking it personally, well, sorry for you.

 

General thought: I wish I could "like" posts in this forum.

@Kizmet, I think I may be in love with the way your brain works.

@NMTTD, I am sure my answer will not exactly hit the mark since your question is an incredibly specific one. To use somewhat of an analogy: It's almost as though you had a very private conversation with a close friend who revealed several bits of information about their life, their hopes, their dreams, the roadblocks they're running into, their interests and hobbies... And then you turn to a stranger to ask for insight into the motivations of this person we don't know at all, and certainly not as well as you do.

So... Here's my contribution (it is a very specific example): Many positions in my field--training & development/learning & development/talent management--now regularly require that candidates hold a masters in a pedagogy/adult education related field. Such a requirement used to not be the case just a few years ago. In fact, one could, not so long ago, enter my field without so much as an undergrad degree (I'm an example of such a person). Recently, though, I actually ran across a senior level position (equal to CFO, but in the field of learning) that listed that it preferred (required?) candidates with a doctoral degree (here's the listing: Chief Collaboration and Learning Officer - Remote Position). Boy is the world a-changin'.

I want to give credit where credit is due but I can't recall who earlier suggested that some folks might pursue a doctoral degree so that they can stay one step ahead of an ever-changing job market. It may not seem like one might need the advanced education right at this very moment, but not needing something right this second is no reason to not, say, have an emergency preparedness kit on hand, even if the sun is high in the sky and it doesn't look like it's going to flood right now, or even if the kit will set you back a few dollars.

<end that train of thought>
<new thought begins here>

On a different but related note, I don't like pickles or mint chocolate. I've had people say to me, "OMG! How can you not like mint chocolate (or pickles)?! I loooove mint chocolate! Mint chocolate is the very source of all that is good in the world!" Okay, so that last part is a bit of hyperbole but, really, their comments are not far off from what I wrote here.

I usually respond with, "What kind of foods do you not like?... Oh, onions, is it?... Well, I loooove onions BUT I am ok with you not liking onions. I don't think there's anything bizarre about you not liking onions. I recognize that your taste buds and mine are not one-in-the-same (thank heavens). We can still be friends."

I am an automatic fan of those who choose to pursue an advanced degree for whatever their reasons (they need not be ones that I hold). I am also fine with them paying for their advanced degree with private or federal loans or an inheritance or their winnings from Vegas or tuition reimbursement or gold bullion. Why? Because I really admire and appreciate folks who are risk-takers and are willing to "see what happens" if they add a bit of rosemary to their life stew (i.e. get a doctoral degree to see where it takes them, intellectually/spiritually/professionally/other-ly), and who consciously live their lives, pursuing what is important to them.

Like this guy: Dyslexia no barrier to University of Michigan grad's 11 degrees | MLive.com I'm a fan of that guy. What a consciously selected life he's lived.

 

Some people want to get to 55 as quickly as possible. :tongue:

 

• Benjamin Bolger's academic degrees:

• 1992 - Muskegon Community College, associate's degree.

• 1994 - University of Michigan, bachelor of arts.

• 1997 - University of Oxford, master's in sociology.

• 1998 - University of Cambridge, master's in sociology and politics of modern society.

• 2000 - Stanford University, master's in education.

• 2001 - Teachers College, Columbia University, master's in politics of education.

• 2001 - Columbia University, master's in real estate development.

• 2002 - Harvard University, master's in real estate.

• 2004 - Brown University, master's in development studies.

• 2004 - Dartmouth College, master's in liberal studies.

• 2007 - Brandeis University, master's in coexistence and conflict.

• 2007 - Skidmore College, master's liberal studies.

• 2007 - Harvard University, doctorate in design.

BUT WHY...why would he do this...who paid for it...is he employed...where does he want to work...has he calculated the ROI... :thinking:

 

I agree Bruce and with the Vette'sgood traction I can do so without spinning my tires and stirring up the local constabulary.

Randell, its an automatic 6sp with optional paddle shift on the steering wheel so no worries.

 

This is how capitalism works. People are consuming doctorates because they feel there is the potential of being more competitive and making more money in general (Yes, the vast majority of people get education because financial gain and don`t do it as a hobby). Once they figure that this capital gain is not going to happen, you will see the price of these doctorates dropping really fast the same way some of the MBAs have dropped (some are less than 10K now).

The general perception is that people with doctorates make more money but this is just a myth. Statistics Canada released a study in 2007 that shows that people with a PhD only makes $5000 dlls more than people with a masters:

CANADA: PhD offers little salary difference - University World News


I would expect that people with online doctorates from low tier schools even make less than this extra 5000 dlls.

The only reason that I can think to do a low tier online doctorate is to make extra cash as an online adjunct but an average 8 week online course pays about $2K. Even if you work only 10 hrs a week for this course this is about $25 hrs an hour that is not a terrible hourly rate but there are quite a few other options that pay this much in the market and do not require the $50K investment.

My guess is that more online doctorates will open and more people will get one. Once people realize that even online adjunct opportunities are not happening, they will start losing interest in these degrees and prices will drop. You will see doctorates in the range of 20K soon, some of the online schools are increasing tuition fees because they are milking the cow before the market collapses.

The only doctorates that will be worth doing are those with a strong accreditation such as AACSB but these doctorates will remain with difficult admission standards (GMATS, GPA, etc) and will be very demanding just to make sure that not anybody from the street can get one. This is the only way to keep salaries of doctorates from these schools high.

 

Only 11 graduate degrees? What a slacker! We've had a couple of old threads on guys who have 23 master's degrees.

 

This actually makes a lot of sense. I think my friends think they HAVE to get them, and I just hate to see them spend so much money and get in so much debt over a misconstrued idea of higher pay. They are not the "lifelong academia" types. They actually dont enjoy school much. So for me I just cant see wasting the time and money on an extra degree with no real benefit.

 

"This is pot calling kettle" Seriously, when you came to this site you where planning on spending $30K plus on an NA degree and springing for a Masters to go along with it. All this for dubious notions of "becoming a diplomat". I'm not knocking your dream...but can't other people have theirs? I don't understand why folks spend as much as they do an many degree programs from the Associate's level up, and I try to dissuade them from overspending....but if one has the means to pursue a superfluous PhD what's it to me?

I would consider something beyond a Masters if I could figure out how to pay for it...and I will likely be doing at least two Masters before I am done.

As an aside...what have you decided for next year? Heading straight to ASU? Any thought to the programs we discussed for you?

 

That is why Im trying to help them. I was very uninformed and learned a lot from here. I thought I might be able to gain some insight/suggestions to help them see that if they have a certain dream to get the doctorate, cool. But if they are going to accrue that kind of stress, debt, and spend all that time and effort to do something they think they HAVE to do vs something thats part of their dream, then why bother? And yes, Im going to test out of 4 classes and go to ASU as well as do some community college for other classes at the same time. Im planning to knock out 9 classes from community college while working on classes for my major. My advisor (academic) at ASU said that since Im transferring in 24 credits already and will be testing out of 4 more classes before school starts I can do a few classes for my major since they mingle them in with gen ed classes. I will technically be part time at both schools but carrying a fulltime courseload. But its all good.

 

Sounds like you HAVE learned a lot! Good for you, I'm happy for you.

 

Thanks Told you I pay attention

 

Easy, when someone asks me if a PhD from an online school is a good investment, I just tell them to check "resume bucket" so they can see what real people are doing with this 50K online PhDs.

Dr. James works in accounts receivable for medium size company with his PhD from NCU

James Wyskiewicz's Online Resume | Current Status: "In need of a job"

Dr. Lendale as a customer service with his PhD from NCU
Lendale Fortenberry's Online Resume

Dr Hughes as an assistant store manager with his Doctorate from UoP

Bryon Hughes' Online Resume | Current Status: "Keeping my options open"

These are real people that bought the "PhD" dream but hold jobs that are normally given to someone with a B.S.

If tell your friends to look at what others are doing with this "PhDs", you would then have an argument to convince them put their money in a retirement plan instead.

 

Two of three are working on their doctorate and none are currently an assistant store manager (2006-2007 CVS Pharmacy Blue Springs, MO).

PHD in Business Administration - NorthCentral University, Prescott Valley, AZ ▪ 2011 - 2014 <-------

2009-In Progress Phoenix University (?) Kansas City, MO

Phoenix University???


No offense but a little lax on on the facts I would say

 

You can never expect the degree to "make the man". A degree, AACSB or otherwise. is not a golden ticket to a job. Maybe this is what they want to do with their degree. You also have to ask what their plan was when they finished the PhD. Maybe they are doing exactly what they wanted to do. Perhaps they are adjuncting for a few schools and they do not list them.

How about this example
Garry Higgins' Online Resume
Michael Kell's Online Resume

Also, this is one website that is not representitive of all people.

The bottom line is that I do not think you can make sweeping gineralizations. Some people make it work for them and some do not.

 

You are right, Doctoral candidate Hughes is an assembler and Doctoral Candidate Landale a customer service professional.

 

The point is that if the individual is already successful, the PhD would add little value so most likley the PhD is not needed. For those that think that the PhD is going to help them to go from a customer service to a CEO, they will find out sooner and later that this is not going to happen with the PhD alone.

 

Thats what I was thinking, as well. I see nothing wrong with getting a doctorate if you can self pay and take your time if the degree is for personal fulfillment. But to take out student loans, go straight from a masters to a PhD without stopping, incur all that debt and stress just because you think you should out of some misguided sense of "it will guarantee me more money and a better job", especially when you have been told that not only is it NOT needed for your job but also not going to be beneficial, then I see it as a waste. If the person doesnt want to change careers, doesnt particularly want to do more schooling, doesnt have a real need or benefit from the extra degree, WHY DO IT? Thats what I just dont get.

 

And where does it say doctoral candidate? At least at NCU

Since estimated completion date is 2014 I doubt they are a doctoral candidate.:slaphappy:

Not sure about "Phoenix University." There is the University of Phoenix in Kansas but no "Phoenix University" that I can find.

 

Perhaps it's because your original post confused inquiry with advocacy. When you advocate a point of view, don't be surprised if people don't agree. If you don't understand that your "inquiry" wasn't really one at all, it will sound as if they don't "get" you. They get you, they just don't agree with you.