Ph.D. or Ed.D. Program- Need Some Advice

On the dissertation length topic:

It's my experience that academic papers only require length when they need to fully explain the research methods and measures used to justify the opinions and outcomes of the experiment/question at the center of the dissertation.

You neither want to write too much (because it opens up your defense to horrible acts of villainy as well as opens up the author to more revisions from his or her committee) or too little (because your committee will notice and you'll be destroyed in publishing by peer review asking follow up questions)

Essentially you want to write what you need to to get the point across clearly and soundly. Methods matter. Get your point across, get your methods across, get your results across. Get out of the defense.

There are 6 page papers on vision science that are excellently done with good results. There are 200+ page papers on business methods that are excellently done. In general hard science dissertations are shorter than humanities dissertations, but other than that, it's all about the content.

Best not to judge.

 

Not that I really care much about this debate, but popular opinion about these degrees has probably changed quite a bit in the last 40 years, so the quote above might be of limited value today ...

 

With the outline of the above - you are right. Someone would be setting themselves up for a big program and let down if they took on a $100K education in hopes to earn a living as an adjunct. If they did do this, obviously they should not be teaching finance or economics!!

I considered, dare I say, law school a few years ago and refused to take on a $100K debt at 37-38 to start out at the bottom of the ladder in a new profession making $75K. I did not feel it would be a wise investment! I guess I needed to put it in may frame of reference to have that point make sense.

 

These may be good or bad - I don't know. But I posted this limited dissertation list to refute your statement that "No reputable university would accept a 100 page "final project" for a PhD dissertation."

 

Wikipedia - Differences between an Ed.D. and a Ph.D. in Education

Here's something that lists more current references on the Pro-Ed.D side of things.

Take it as you will...

 

Riiiiiight

 

Right. OK. I was talking about the need for a doctorate in government... not a requirement or even necessary in that space. You are using a doctorate in higher education, which is what it was designed for.

 

Ladies and gents -

Friendly public service announcement that children in schools these days are being taught that the word "stupid" is a swear. Additionally, we're on forums and we're all some level of ridiculously educated on average. We can communicate without taking shots of any kind.

That stated I agree that Warguns is being a bit one-minded. Still, his right and ours to debate or ignore him.

 

Now that is stupid! Sorry - I could not resist

 

That section of the wikipedia article (at least in its current form today) is very accurate and is in agreement with the established research on the topic.

 

I don't think there is much here to get worked up about.

Do hard sciences PhDs look down upon Business PhDs - yes, I have experienced it.

Do Busines PhDs look down upon EdDs - yes, I have experienced it.

Is it all a bit crazy and silly...... yes.

 

I guess it is a wonderful life when this is the only thing that people have to agrue about....One of my favorite lines from the movie Overboard..."you're so bored you have to invent stuff to bitch about..."

 

Even so, I doubt it would go far to change certain people's minds on the matter. Even though it has referenced works to support the article, it is only 'Wikipedia' after all. (Which to some is nasty word... Personally I kinda like it.)

 

Among non-scholarly people, I think that the PhD would have more prestige than the EdD, only because people know what a PhD is but would have no idea what an EdD is.

Kinda like the DMin practical ministry doctorate ... not the same comparison as PhD vs EdD because there are definite differences between DMin & PhD ... but if some Christian pastor has a PhD his congregation knows exactly what that is. If he has DMin many/most would say, "huh?"

(Off-topic: If you're speaking and say someone has a DMin degree, please say the full name, "Doctorate of Ministry" ... DMin sounds a little too much like "demon" when you try to say the short form and some people will be confused! )

 

I agree with this but I would modify it to "among many non-scholarly people."
The same goes for the DBA (according to a DBA friend).

I note that Jill Biden has a Ed.D. but the media often says she has a Ph.D.

 

I no longer correct people when they say I have a PhD (I have a DBA). In their minds, all doctorates are PhDs. Correcting them is a losing battle. When I begin to explain the difference, a glazed look comes across their faces. Only academics understand the difference; most lay people don't understand the difference.

 

PhD v EdD

Still waiting.

 

From the link I posted above -

Both the Ed.D. and Ph.D. in Education are research-based degrees demanding the same level of academic rigour.[13][14][15]The U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF) recognize numerous doctoral degrees as equivalent (see footnote 3 here). A list can be found at doctorate. Through a 5-year Carnegie Foundation project launched in 2001, Shulman et al. found that, "In reality, the distinctions between the [Ed.D. and Ph.D.] programs are minimal, and the required experiences (curriculum) and performances (dissertation) strikingly similar" (p. 26).[16]


13. ^ Nelson, J.K. & Coorough, C. (1994). Content analysis of the Ph.D. versus the Ed.D. dissertation. Journal of Experimental Education. 62.
14. ^ Redden, E. (2007, April 10). Envisioning a New Ed.D. Inside Higher Ed.
15. ^ Addams, A. N. (2008). Doctorate Recipients from United States Universities: Summary Report 2004 http://www.aacu.org/ocww/volume35_1/data.cfm
16. ^ Shulman, L.S., Golde, C.M., Conklin Bueschel, & A., Garabedian, K. J. (2006). Reclaiming education's doctorates: A critique and a proposal. Educational Researcher, 35(3).