Look At What Your Distance Education is Funding

I thought Stanislav was Russian, since in another thread he was bashing IUFS! If my history serves me correctly, Russia use to be under communist control. You confuse free market with regulation.

 

I challenge anyone to find an institution anywhere in the world that spends more financial resources on specific course development and assessment than the University of Phoenix. I suspect because they are such a high-profile target they go to great extremes in these areas. (Having thousands of students to amortize these costs over doesn’t hurt either.)

As many have pointed out, there are many alternatives to UOP. It’s not the type of institution that would interest me.

But having read the UOP Self-Studies submitted to NCA for a number of years it is very apparent that the great majority of their students and employers are satisfied with the education provided.

It's my understanding that while many UOP students receive Title IV funds, most are in the form of loans which cost the taxpayer virtually nothing rather than grants.

 

Ukrainian, thank you very much.

I'm not against regulation, but you have to have VERY good reason to impose regulation. You didn't provide any. The fact that some corporation "makes too much profit" or "pays the CEO too much" is not that reason. You pointed out yourself that customers can choose another, cheaper RA school - or CCU for that matter. UOPx is not a monopolist.

BTW, CCU is for profit, isn't it?

P. S. IUFS is a sleasy fraud that discredits Russian (and all ex-Soviet, including Ukrainian) educational system, thus devaluing my own degrees. You bet I'll "bash" it.

 

The fact people are borrowing enormous amounts of money in an effort to fund their education is exactly my point. I think there should be some cap on their tuition charges. A cost of $570 per graduate hour is too high, Hell, by the time people graduate, they have a serious financial problem.

 

I'm trying to figure out what the hubub is. The vast majority of the guy's compensation was from stock options, a commonly used method for rewarding employees. Even adjunct faculty at UoP become eligible for receiving options.

Education is a business, whether it is for-profit or not-for-profit.

For-profit schools have much greater scrutiny, especially one operating in many states.

Tuition at private, not-for-profits is seldom lower than the for-profits. There are examples, but you couldn't say that one group was significantly higher (or lower) than the other.

 

I agree UOP is overpriced.
So?

BTW, as expensive as education in US is, I think the consensus is that it still worth it, financially. IIRC, master's degree brings you, on average, half a million additionally in lifetime earnings. Do you need help locating the actual study that showed that?

 

Stansilav, CCU is for profit, but how can you compare their current tuition of $162. per graduate hour in the same ball park as U of P? CCU's tuition is very reasonable even for their new students. OK, you are Ukrainian so I withdraw my previous comment.

I just think there needs to be some regulation on these educational corporations. Did you read the whole CBS article?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/31/60minutes/main670479.shtml

Isn't it a shame what these students paid to go to school and now they aren't able to use it. There needs to be some ethics in the business.

 

You defeat your own argument. Yes, UOP is expensive, but there are cheaper alternative, and you show one! The fact that they charge more shows that, for some people, some of the time, UOP is a superior choice! Yet for other people, obviously, schools like Troy, Amberton, CSU-Hayward, Columbia Southern, CCU or, I dunno... Ashworth/PCDI are superior choice. Yet other beople shoose Duke Fuqua eMBA for friggin hundred grand. You choose not to enroll to UOP, I choose likewise, so how's that any of our business what other people pay for their degree? From my perspective, say, AOL is way overpriced - but it's not the end of the world. Maybe some people do need flashy proprietory browsers and "customer support".

 

I agree with Rich that tuition prices are seldom lower at not-for-profits. Tuition rates are set in competitive markets.

However, what I do see as being quite different is where the money goes. In the case of for-profits - 50% or more to marketing, administraiton, profit and tax. Non-profits have no profit or tax and spend far less on marekting.

When I attend a week long class at NSU's Ft. Lauderdale campus (a mandatory part of the NSU DBA experience), I have access to a large library (the largest library buiding in the state!). I've done some comparison and NSU's library resources greatly exceed those of its for-profit competitors. NSU also employs a cadre of faculty - many that are full-time. Their part-timers actually participate in curriculum design, for example, in a ddition to teaching. The for-profit world is populated with large numbers of term at a time adjuncts with full-time administrators and centrally developed curriculum. It goes with out saying that I believe in faculty governance.

If you're going to spend $600 a credit hour, what do you want for your money? A school that is marketed to the hilt - but employs lowly paid adjuncts and has few resources to support students?

I'll put my $600 with a non-profit like NSU any day.

Just my opinion.

Regards -Andy

 

So you vote with your feet....

 

Re: Re: Look At What Your Distance Education is Funding

I was always told that the football coaches got their salaries paid from boosters and merchandise sales. Salaries are not paid from tuition or state money. I believe that is the same with most public universities.

 

Re: Re: Re: Look At What Your Distance Education is Funding

Don't think so. The colleges sign the coach's contract, not the boosters.


Take a look at:

FAU athletic budget loses big as football stalls in red zone


The $6.25 million debt might propel more borrowing, higher fees.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2005/02/10/s1a_FAUBALL_0210.html

 

I am waiting for folks to finally accept this as fact. I do some work for a couple liberal arts colleges that are as steeped in the B&M traditions as you can get. Let there be no doubt that the administrators of these schools are keenly focused on just how much of what they do is purely business. Even the concept of "not-for-profit" is a joke. It is very much for profit, expressed in different ways.

I have a daughter attending an upstate NY, "not-for-profit" school that charges over $21,000 year, just in tuition. That's $700 per credit. There are hundreds of four year liberal arts "not-for-profit" colleges throughout the country that charge just as much and more and are not on any tier list.

The spotlight is biased. But most things are.

 

Assistant coaches don't do so bad either

Average compensation of football coaches in the ACC

http://theacc.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020905aaa.html

POSITION ¹AVERAGE ²UPPER 25% ³CLEMSON
Head Coach * $ 1,019,281 $ 1,270,587 $1,108,429*
Offensive Coordinator $182,682 $204,650 $175,000
Defensive Coordinator $205,547 $267,596 $175,000
Assistant Coach #1 * $161,810 $180,476 $185,000*
Assistant Coach #2 $137,747 $155,063 $140,000
Assistant Coach #3 $132,214 $149,042 $133,000
Assistant Coach #4 $130,340 $138,877 $120,000
Assistant Coach #5 $122,600 $130,813 $118,000
Assistant Coach #6 $116,091 $128,141 $113,876
Assistant Coach #7 $101,138 $109,468 $93,571
TOTALS $2,309,450 $2,734,713 $2,361,876

 

What one should want for their money are gained competencies and mastery of learning outcomes that were designed into their program. Is there research to suggest that the learning outcomes for "not-for-profits" exceeds those of "for-profit"?

 

Check out the incentives the football coaches get at many of the so-called "non-profits"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/writers/mike_fish/12/19/coaching.contracts/

Really like this one:

Who pays the coaches?

They did list some exceptions though.

 

I do agree there are cheaper schools than UOP, but as stated before, the program does fill many people's needs. If they chose to attend COSC, Excelsior, TESC, Troy state, Amberton, Nova Southeastern or any other school with a program that better suits their needs, I never hesitate to encourage students in doing so. I have plenty of students who cannot handle the five week format, and I have provided other school names (especially the big 3) as alternatives.

Also, quite a few students employers pay for 100% of their school, so they must recognize value in the education.

I have nothing against the other for profits, especially not CCU as I like the way their curriculum is structured, and I used to attend Devry, and was very impressed with my teachers. I had some great instructors at Longwood U as well (a state school), but overall having nearly completed a BS from UOP and after working here I believe the school does have a well-structured program, and administrators, counselors (like me) and instructors that genuinely care about the students.

 

I go to Grand Canyon University (DL MBA). RA and formerly not-for-profit. The new owners have gone "for-profit."

So far what I have I gotten from my FOR profit?
1. An excellent education
2. Free books due to veteran status
3. Waived tuition to my 3rd class this year as a thanks
4. Lowering of tuition by 75% starting fall 2005.

For what its worth

 

Good choice, Beachhoppr!

Faith-based education and independently ascertainable school quality are not antithetical. Not in the least.

Whether For-profit or Not-for-profit, as long as they are properly (i.e. USDoE or C.H.E.A or other) accepted and recognized, accredited, and of certifiably high quality, they share one characteristic in common - they are both worth the time, money and effort.

Grand Canyon University is a member of the Association of Southern Baptist Colleges and the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities.

And, oh, btw, the University is accredited by The Higher Learning Commission (member of North Central Association of Colleges and Schools), 30 N. LaSalle St. Suite 2400, Chicago, IL 60602-2504; tel. 800-621-7440

http://www.ncahigherlearningcommission.org/

Best of luck in your studies. Thanks.

 

I'll get them their props for the ABA law school accreditation, but as I know little or nothing about Social Sciences, Pharmacy, Pschology, et. al., I can't comment on those accreditations, whether they are legit or phony as a three dollar bill.

But when you throw out the UNIVERSITY COUNCIL OF JAMAICA???!!! for their B-school accreditation--something I do know about--I think that says it all.

I don't care if they've applied for AACSB, the fact that they've applied but don't have it means they haven't done what's necessary to make their program stringent enough to receive it. Jamaican accreditation for a B-school's roughly akin to the Jamaican Olympic bobsled team--a laugh out loud joke.

Again, when they start doing the things that other universities do, doing them just as well or better, they will get their recognition in the rankings. Until then, you just need to admit that the bias against them is at least in part deserved.