Look At What Your Distance Education is Funding

quote:
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Originally posted by PhD_Cyberspace
cut.... Education is what you make of it and you don't need RA stamped on your diploma to get a job.
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Also, if you want to become a member of academe or teach or conduct research in (respected) academia, plus if you want to get a job anywhere in the federal (and increasingly, many State and local) government, you do.

Check out this link (May, 2004):

http://www.opm.gov/Strategic_Management_of_Human_Capital/Guidance/2004/DiplomaMills.pdf

Thanks.

 

Fair enough, at least you qualified the statement with "just my opinion", but the rankings have a lot more to do with factors more objective that whether or not carlosb has "a high deal of respect" for a school, factors such as:

1). average salary after graduation,
2). placement rates,
3). quality of students (standardized test scores, GPA, etc.), and
4). reputation among academics (which typically is earned by a school having good scholarship, publications, etc. emanating from the faculty)

We can debate whether these are the proper criteria or whether the factors used to rank schools can be manipulated--of course they can--but the fact is, if NSU were to do what ranked universities do, they'd be ranked also, things like: garnering the highest levels of accreditation, hiring highly-regarded professors in their fields, existing faculty making the same sort of contributions to scholarship that nationally-ranked universities make. If NSU did what everybody else does and did it just as well, they'd move up in the rankings. There might be a lag of some years, but as NSU profs started producing "must-read" articles and other scholarship, as NSU grads started regularly beating out major university grads for jobs, as top students started desiring a coveted spot in NSU's incoming class, they'd get the respect that you imply they deserve. It's not about fairness; it's about reality; the reason that NSU isn't ranked higher has more to do with what NSU does and doesn't do than it has to do with any bias.

It's not impossible for a school to move up in the rankings, to become prestigious, every school started somewhere. Stanford and the University of Chicago are only a bit over a century old, they had to start somewhere. It might take a wealthy benefactor or alum, it might take sacrifices on the part of administration, it might take offering higher salaries for professorship openings, it might take working the network of alums to needle some more lucrative endowed professorships out the wealthier of them. Essentially, it would take NSU making the same committment that virtually every other big-name university has already made. But it can happen, and NSU could become a prestigious university.

But they won't get there without earning it.

 

Dear Deb and Jake,

Yes, while you may be partially correct, having an accredited degree isn't always necessary. All unaccredited degrees are not diploma mills. And just because you have earned your degree through an RA school, doesn't mean you worked any harder for it! Again it is "RA or No Way" Here!!

I have seen allot of criticism in this forum regarding Kennedy Western. That doesn't make them a diploma mill, does it? I have seen it written in this forum that a gentleman got his Masters Degree from Northcentral University by plagiarizing his way through. Are they not RA? Does that make his degree legit because he lied and cheated his way through?

What I recommended is possibly looking into DETC accredited degree programs as an alternative. In many cases a DETC accredited Bachelors Degree can be accepted into a RA Masters Program. That is OK. Also, what is the matter with a DETC accredited Masters Degree?

Most people here are placing their hopes and dreams on a RA degree program, such as the University of Phoenix, and selling themselves short by getting in debt up to their eyeballs. In my opinion the University of Phoenix and many of the other "For Profit Universities" are money hungry, self seeking opportunistic corporations. All you are doing by enrolling in these schools is padding the pockets of stock holders, board members and the CEO, in this case, Mr. Todd S. Nelson of the Apollo Group. But I guess he thanks you for it!

 

As we pointed out, in certain fields it is indeed RA or the highway. You can not apply to teach or become a researcher at any state school, and most private schools, in Florida without having "a regionally accredited degree."

You many argue that this is unfair. You may argue that accreditation doesn't prove education but for now, that is the rule. Unless you plan on spending millions to sue and fight it - you have to have RA to teach in Florida.

 

I agree that you don't need RA stamped on your diploma to get job, but if you don't have the RA stamp; you may be limited as to what you can do with your degree.

Keep that in mind when you want to apply to a university like Nova Southeastern.

Minimum Admission Requirements (Nova):
http://www.scis.nova.edu/Admissions/admission_req_all_Doctoral.html

 

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but did I miss something here?

When I sold my house in Vegas in 2004, I sold it for way more than it was worth because that is what the market would bear. UofP is not doing anything different than you or I would do.

Like it or not, as long as employers continue to pay outrageous tuition costs for their employees, the universities will continue to charge them. Your letter isn't going to change that fact.

 

In my opinion, it is unethical for them to rape the public simply because the market will pay it. And isn't the cost of doing busniess for these employers passed on to the final consumer? That means everytime you buy someting from this employer, you are paying for their employees who have attended the University of Phoenix or anywhere else for that matter. What about those people whose employers will not pay for their tuition? Are they to be over charged simply because they are not eligible for tuition assistance?

 

Not that I'm a fan of UofP - but last time I looked no one was being dragged there in chains and forced to enroll.

I do think the program has a "time bomb: element. Someone will cut one too many corners and get caught.

 

Charles Manson had allot of fans also. And they all went to jail! There is allot of people that stand to lose if this thing blows up and I believe it will. A company can't continue to take and take without anything happening.

 

Ray,

I'm on your side on this issue, but it is not just the "for profits" that are raping students.

I checked into UMUC's DM program...they're charging $829 per credit hour for all students regardless of residency (and I am a Maryland resident)!

http://www.umuc.edu/studserv/tuition/tuition_sp05_gr.html

Notice that the link above has a different rate for 600-level courses under the DM, but if you look at the actual DM curriculum (below), all of the courses are 700-level, which costs $829 per credit hour.

http://www.umuc.edu/grad/dm/dm_curriculum.html

Compare that to my present program at NCU...$475 per credit hour: expensive, but much more reasonable than UMUC’s doctorate.

 

"Greed is good. Greed works" (c) some movie with Michael Douglas.

There is a lot of things wrong in this world. A corporation's desire to maximize profits just isn't among them.

 

PhD2B,

I believe you regarding the University of Maryland. And I think from my research into NCU, it is an excellent school. I am currently enrolled in California Coast University and presently working on an MBA. CCU is DETC accredited, and the cost for my program is probably less than $3,000. I was originally a student in the early 90s, and was recently reinstated. Now I realize I have a fantastic tuition for completing my program. But for U of P to charge over $25,000 for an MBA, that's crazy.

 

McDonalds?
Coca-Cola?
Microsoft?

 

No bias against Nova? Forget Top 100. No argument there. But with all they have accomplished they cannot even go to Tier 3?

Please tell me there is NO bias at the following discussion at The Chronicle:

http://chronicle.com/forums/careernetwork/read.php?f=2&i=7414&t=7397

"I regret that someone will be offended by this, but I think Nova is little more than a corporate diploma mill. The main campus is in Davie, FL but they have locations in all manner of places including North Miami Beach, Tampa, West Palm Beach, Jacksonville, Jamaica, and Las Vegas! They offer majors in almost everything and have more than 78 on-line degree and certificate programs. Would you hire someone with an on-line degree? I wouldn’t."


Sure, a "corporate diploma mill" that has a law, medical, oceanography, dental and other professionally accredited programs;
Professional Accreditations
Center for Psychological Studies
• The clinical psychology doctoral programs of the Center for Psychological Studies are accredited by the American Psychological Association (APA). The center also has a predoctoral internship program that is a member of the Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers (APPIC). The APA and the Florida Department of Health have approved the awarding of continuing education credits by the center.
College of Allied Health and Nursing
• The baccalaurate nursing program is accredited by the National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission,
Inc. (NLNAC).
• The Occupational Therapy Program is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Occupational Therapy Education.
• The Physical Therapy Program is accredited by the Commission on Accreditation in Physical Therapy Education of the American Physical Therapy Association.
• The Physician Assistant Program is accredited by the Accreditation Review Commission (ARC-PA).
College of Dental Medicine
• College of Dental Medicine programs in dentistry, advanced general dentistry, oral and maxillofacial surgery, endodontics, orthodontics and dentofacial orthopedics, periodontics, pediatric dentistry, and prosthodontics are accredited by the Commission on Dental Accreditation. The commission is a specialized accrediting body recognized by the United States Department of Education and can be contacted at (312) 440-4653 or at 211 East Chicago Avenue, Chicago, IL 60611.
College of Optometry
• The College of Optometry is accredited by the Council on Optometric Education of the American Optometric Association and is a member of the Association of Schools and Colleges of Optometry.
College of Osteopathic Medicine
• The College of Osteopathic Medicine is accredited by the Bureau of Professional Education of the American Osteopathic Association and is a member of the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine.
• The Master of Public Health Program is accredited by the Council on Education in Public Health (CEPH).
College of Pharmacy
• The Doctor of Pharmacy Program is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education, 311 West Superior Street, Suite 512, Chicago, IL 60610 (telephone number: (312) 664-3575, 800-533-3606; fax: (312) 664-4652.) The College of Pharmacy is a member of the American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy.
Fischler School of Education and Human Services
• The Master’s Degree Program in Speech-Language Pathology, offered through the Fischler School of Education and Human Services, is approved by the Florida Department of Education and accredited by the Council on Academic Accreditation of the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA). The audiology doctorate (Au.D.) is also accredited by the Council on Academic Accreditation of ASHA.
Graduate School of Humanities and Social Sciences
• The Graduate School of Humanities and Social Sciences, Master of Science and Ph.D. Degree Programs in Family Therapy are accredited by the Commission on Accreditation for Marriage and Family Therapy Training and Education (COAMFTE) of the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy (AAMFT).
H. Wayne Huizenga School of Business and Entrepreneurship
• Bachelor’s, master’s, and doctoral degree programs offered in a variety of fields of business and administration by the H. Wayne Huizenga School of Business and Entrepreneurship have applied for accreditation by the International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education. The Bachelor of Science in Professional Management, the Master of Business Administration, the Master of Science in Human Resource Management, and the Master of Science and Ed.D. in Instructional Technology and Distance Education are accredited by the University Council of Jamaica.
Mailman Segal Institute for Early Childhood Studies
• The Mailman Segal Institute for Early Childhood Studies’ preschool is accredited by the National Association for the Education of Young Children.
Shepard Broad Law Center
• Nova Southeastern University’s Shepard Broad Law Center is a member of the Association of American Law Schools and is accredited by the Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar of the American Bar Association (321 North Clark Street, 21st Floor, Chicago, IL 60610-4714: Telephone number: (312) 988-6738).
University School of Nova Southeastern University
• University School of Nova Southeastern University is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, by the Florida Council of Independent Schools, by the Florida Kindergarten Council, and by the Association of Independent Schools of Florida. University School is a member of the National Association of Independent Schools. It was accredited as an elementary and secondary school for the first time by SACS in 1973.


But there is no bias against Nova because of the distance Ed D and DBA PROGRAMS. None at all.


Sure..

Just my opinion

 

quote:
posted by PhD_Cyberspace
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And just because you have earned your degree through an RA school, doesn't mean you worked any harder for it!
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This is a typical response from many apologists from unaccredited schools (not necessarily you, cyberspace) including those who operate or obtained degrees from diploma mills or are related to or benefit therefrom.

Fact:

It does not matter how hard you worked to obtain your degree from an unaccredited or accredited school. Few employers would ask you at the interview: "how hard did you work in obtaining your degree?" It does matter whether your degree comes from an institution with objectively ascertainable academic quality standards affixable to it.

And, yes, it matters not a whole lot if some graduates from accredited schools are/were lazy and some graduates from unaccredited schools moved heaven and earth to obtain their degree.

Working harder on courses you paid for from a one-person owner in a basement, or from a questionable and decrepit institution (or online business) lacking all semblance of externally-validated academic quality and rigor has never been an acceptable substitute for working to meet the minimum academic requirements at any (CHEA/RA/DETC/USDoE, pr foreign-equivalent) accredited or recognized institution.

And why is it that in discussions of the relative merits of accredited versus unaccredited schools some accreditation-averse apologists are always quick to cite the exceptions: "the student who worked harder at the unaccredited schools" and "the lazy student who graduated from the RA or other accredited school?"

Logic 101:

Exceptions do not "prove" the rule! Never have! (Not here, not elsewhere, and not on any known planet bearing evidence of intelligent life thereon)!

Granted, not all unaccredited programs or schools are diploma mills. But the numbers of such which are of independently discernible and acceptable quality are dwindling by the minute.

With the vast and ongoing (and not to cease anytime soon) hoopla going on about unaccredited degrees all over the place, from the federal House to state houses to school houses everywhere, and with several currently unaccredited schools feverishly working to seek some form of accreditation, let me add my voice to repeat the question so oft asked but repeatedly unanswered in these forums:

In this day and age, why would anyone of sincere intentions ever want an unaccredited degree, especially of the dubious type, from a questionable source, given the reasonable choices available?

Cost is necessary but not a sufficient barrier. Home prices are going through the roof in many places all over the Us, but that is not stopping many from buying a home - or saving diligently and meticulously - to buy one.

Thanks.

 

The thing that amazes me the most out of all of this is that because Apollo is the biggest, they are used in every example that has to do with for profit education, be it negative or positive.

There are plenty of other for profit schools (AIU, Cornithian, Capella, Argosy, Strayer, etc..).

I am sure if you review their CEO's salary scales, you won't see much of a variance from what Todd Nelson makes in comparison. Since Apollo is successful, they can afford to pay him more money, not saying that makes it right, just offering an opinion.

Also, there was an article in the Chronicle of Higher Education (quite recently) about how some non-profit college presidents are also quite overpaid, not to mention their free houses, cars, endowments, and other forms of income provided by their universities, which in turn are backed by state and federal tax dollars.

You also may want to check out this book:

http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title_pages/1710.html

It's an interesting read

 

"Corinthian"

 

Gee Ray (PhD Cyberspace is "Reverend" Ray Hill):

I just bet the Inspector General of the DoE will sit up and whistle Dixie at a letter from someone who is so well educated he thinks "allot" (a verb, meaning to share out) is how "a lot" (two words, boychik, meaning many) is spelled, and thinks "we have be led" is standard English.

Did you tell him about your trip to Iraq for which you needed a quickie doctorate to wow the Iraqis? Or about your zealous promotion of "Sorbon"? Or about your flirtation with "Buxton"? Or about trying to buy an honorary doctorate from "Knightsbridge" on terms even Henrik Fyrst Christensen found ludicrous? Come to think of it, did you tell him about equating people who disagree with you with Charles Manson?

You real be should done that id enhance yalls credibility allot.

Janko Preotul

PS: Newbies, lurkers, what you've seen from this individual is classic millist invective and slander. Please do not take it seriously. This person is not typical of the many responsible posters who see a legitimate place for ethical unacredited schools (such as me, among others). Once again, poor old Cal Coast is not well served by the rhetorical shenanigans of some of its students. Please do not attribute to Cal Coast the nonsense posted on this thread. It's not CCU's fault.

 

Gee Uncle Janko, you are a piece of work. I bet everytime your friends come over they bring popcorn, so they have something to feed to the animals.

 

You forgot California Coast University. To praise CCU and at the same time bash UOPx is illogical and anti - free market. People who suggest things a topic starter suggested are often incorrectly labelled "communists".