Jimmy Clifton Gives Away Doctorates!

Amen Dr. (real) Morris.

North

 

I love the hypothesis, Bill.

I could get 5 American College Ph.D.'s for around $1000 ($199 each). So what you suggest is that one would then have a legitimate Ph.D.?

Does anyone know where I could borrow $1000?

 

Not from me brother Morris. I will offer to print one for you though based on professional courtesy.

North

 

Re: Re: Jimmy's Covering His Tracks

QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain
[
I will allow the word of God to have the last word here,

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You will "allow"? Mighty generous, didn"t think God needed your permission!

You are a little narrow in your selection of Scripture, Cap! (Doctor

Cap??,,of the Lord's host??)

Can you think of any on hypocrisy?

 

Re: Re: ACADEMIC HONESTY AND THE MINISTRY

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Naaa, Dr Jimmy's deal is better! Besides, I don't think just one "doctor's degree" is enough for all that sweat on my lawn.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Respectfully,

1) I believe "off topics" includes banter
2) Something" very wrong, unethical,and outright dishonest"is deserving of a few hours of pounding posts
3) new info and new posters were ongoing
4) as the subject was religious fraud in academics I personally found it quite useful
5)of course any who did not, needed only to click off!

 

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RIGHT ON RUSSELL,

 

Research Skills Extraordinaire

Gotta hand it to you, Bill. You go back months into archival material and find a comment regarding the less-than-wonderful. Ike used a little ire and rancor, huh? He called them dupes, thieves, etc. It is disturbing, no?

 

This is by far the most entertaining and useful of the threads I have read to date! It is so interesting to see that the mills and people with milled degrees watch this site and then complain when they are brought to public view. Now.....for Dr. Trudy....how long did all of this take you? My MAEd took two years and my EdD took about 5 1/2 years. Of course I was working full time and could only attend at night and on weekends. By my calculations, with all your degrees, because you also appeared to have been working, you spent only 30 years in school? Or was it actually less? Perhaps you could just tell us where you went to school?!

 

Re: Research Skills Extraordinaire

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Not much research actually. This and the companion thread "Calling Jimmy Clifton" are favs of mine. Once in a while I retrieve them for a laugh. I like your creative mocking tone here with the"Bubba story."

Yes "its" ie, such schools and persons, are disturbing. Their claims are an insult to such as Michael's long and laborious experience described above. Their practice is a black mark on Christianity. I thought Ike's comments, though, were right on target!

 

Re: Re: Research Skills Extraordinaire

I just re-read the whole thread, Bill, and had forgotten about the Dr. Bubba parody. I laughed till tears came to my eyes.

Help, North. Via your counseling program at ACCS, have you found that when one begins to laugh at one's self and one's own posts, this is symptomatic of some disturbing ailment?

 

If I recall correctly there was some doubt at one point as to whether it was actually Trudy posting. Did we not at one point have Jimmy & his wife. A rather interesting situation. Trudy is not likely to post where her degrees come from for obvious reasons. Situation is sad, not unlike Bill's Withey story.

I respect Jimmy (own brand of Church of Christ) as a person but do not like his theological perspective (which is Arianistic in terms of its view of Jesus) and if I recall (from Pastorshelper.com) advocates an ontological subordination not affirmed in scripture. I am also uncomfortable with a couple of the degree options (did he own the schools??) he involved himself in (including making people chaplains). I have not researched the CofC but it did make me curious about the start of the 'Restoration' movement (under which the Mormons characterize themselves as well) and Jimmy's quote from Campbell that seemed to support the unorthodox (but seemingly logical) view of mongenes discussed in another thread that later linguistic discovery in the 20th century showed to not be correct. This 20th century scholarship then gave support to the orthodox view held by early Christians (as opposed to that held by Jimmy & Mormons). As I understand it, the CofC is generally held to be orthodox. I did have a friend who was a fromer CofC pastor who used to get upset at Hank Hanegraaff's characterizations of CofC and his refering to them as 'Campbellites'.

North

 

I Googled Veerman and found absolutely no reference anywhere to the source of her doctor doctor doctor doctor degrees.

 

ONTOLOGICAL EQUALITY BUT ROLE INFERIORITY??

 

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Yes, Unk, but as DR., DR., DR ., DR., DR. Trudy says, God , Himself, has established and verified her ministry.

Does Google search out Heaven as well?

O ye of little faith , faith is the substance of things NOT seen!

 

I'm inclined to approach this in precisely the opposite way.

If an individual runs degree mills that hide under religious exemptions, my respect for him is shaken. And if that individual goes on to promote weird "pastoral counseling" schemes, he's no longer funny, he's dangerous.

I haven't bothered to memorize every morsel of information about Mr. Clifton. But I do seem to remember him being involved in these kind of things. If that recollection is accurate, it would make it very difficult for me to have very much personal respect for the man. For his craftiness perhaps, for his ethics no.

But I am entirely willing to respect individuals whose religious beliefs differ from my own. If that weren't the case, I would have little respect for most of the people who post to Degreeinfo. It's entirely possible to respect someone while simultaneously disagreeing with them.

BTW, I'm not a theologian, but from my own amateur reading of this stuff, I have always felt that the Bible is unclear and ambiguous about technical theological issues like trinitarian theology. The New Testament isn't really a theoretical treatise, after all.

In interpreting some of the ambiguous remarks upon which so much later theology has been hung, might it make some sense to read with Jewish rather than patristic Greek eyes? People are influenced by their cultural environment and tend to display some intellectual continuity with it.

I suspect that if you do this, a subordinationist reading might be defensible.

 

North

These two posts re trinal relationships are not meant to challenge your positions. This topic is primarily what I think about these days as it is my thesis area. Sorry if I come off combative!

 

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Were you to read much in the patristics, Bill, you would see that certain types of subordinationism is verycommon here.

I appreciate your interest,

 

I was proposing that rather than by trying to read fourth century trinitarian formulations back into Biblical phrases that probably weren't even written with those kind of issues in mind, it might be valuable to read those passages as reflective of earlier OT and intertestamental Jewish thought.

Obviously this isn't a new or an original idea. There's an entire literature on it.

All that I really wanted to suggest is that it might not be entirely clear what precise technical doctrines are "affirmed by scripture", or what the theological presuppositions of the NT writers actually were.