I just got fried by a prof. for applying to a distance ed school...

Re: Clarification on my previous post...

I think that it's true that there is prejudice against DL out there. Ironically, it seems to be strongest in academia.

But I think that there are many variables. Is the graduate a twenty-something whose degree is his or her only selling point? Does the graduate have previous experience? Whose recommendations does he or she come with? What's the reputation and strengths of his or her department? If the goal is to be a professor, is the position sought primarily a research position or a teaching position? Is the employer a research university, a liberal arts college or a non-traditional program of some sort?

Obviously DL isn't for everybody. But that doesn't imply that it isn't for anybody.

When people here talk about 'national accreditation', I think that they mean USDoEd/CHEA recognized accreditors. Even in these cases, you must be aware that there have been countless threads discussing the relative merits of the schools they accredit and the utility of the accreditation itself. Degreeinfo certainly doesn't take this stuff for granted. It we have a fault, it's that we obsess over it too much.

Are you suggesting that foreign degrees aren't accepted in the United States? If so, I think that you are mistaken. Here in California there are hordes of people with foreign degrees. Many are doing very well.

Then it's strange that so many employers actively promote DL degrees, and often pay tuition expenses for their employees enrolled in them.

There's absolutely no reason why everyone abroad needs to to enroll in American programs, nor why Americans shouldn't enroll in good programs offered abroad.

In my opinion, one of the most exciting things about DL is how it opens up the whole world's education to all of us. It literally gives us a world of opportunity, and that's very cool.

 

I know two Nova professors that were recommended by their dean to get their doctorate in Health Sciences from TUI. Apparently it will help them move up in the administrative ladder.

I wonder if they also require one to defend dl degrees from higher ranked institutions than theirs (e.g., mba from Duke).
Maybe they need to be informed that there are people getting dl degrees from Harvard, Stanford and other big schools.

-S

 

Maybe they also need to be introduced to cordless phones, cellphones, the use of emails rather than snail mail, windows 2000 and more. : )

Some people just don't get out much.

-S

 

Re: Clarification on my previous post...

First, there are National Accrediting bodies and they are not a dime a dozen. You CANNOT simply start one. The ones I am talking about are Recognized National Accrediting bodies (ie recognized by the US Dept of Ed. Ask NAPSC if it is easy. They have never managed in spite of years of trying to get US Dept of Ed recognition. TRACS itself in the past has been commended by the US DoE for the assessment methodology (by the folks responsible for reviewing accreditors). This may come as a surprise but your first statement above is therefore not factual (in terms of existence and ease of creation). I realize you are probably new to this area and wrong out of ignorance.

Second, maybe grads of foreign schools will be unemployed or maybe not. Your sweeping statement is utter nonsense. I think the grads of UNISA (or other South African Universities) who are faculty in North America may disagree with you. Not to mention that distance learning is available at the second oldest university in Britain (Wales) at the PhD level. I think a grad of this program could make a solid case for employability.

Third, for the most part I agree that RA is the best route. I would probably choose a prestigious foreign program over strictly RA DL programs like Capella & Walden.

Fourth, I am enrolled in a Nationally Accredited doctoral program. It will meet my needs for education and I will come out of it with an accredited doctorate. Is it a PhD from Fuller.....no. It is a good education in my opinion and eligible for loans.

Fifth, you make ill informed statements about DL that have been pointed out elsewhere. Better let Harvard, Duke and others know they are engaging in substandard education.

Rather than making silly statements (including about the age and lack of accredition of programs people here are pursuing) you ought to read a little more and ask questions. Some of your stuff is waaaaaaay out there.

North

 

Re: accreditation

Quite true. I'd rather go to Fresno. Wait a minute, I already did. Twice.


Tom Nixon

 

The same old story...

The post on these boards have become very predictable. Anytime anyone calls online/DL into question they bring up big name schools (Harvard, Duke, Cambridge...) and say "Well what about that school?" Well if those were the caliber of programs being discussed here then most of the threads here would be very different. The only time you hear a name school mentioned here is when someone wants to go to "the easiest cheapest school on the web to pursue a graduate degree at a name school." Have we ever witnessed a post like that? I think so. It is all a matter of comparrison here: One these boards people like to compare apples (Name schools-BM-RA....) to oranges (Schools that are fronts for businesses, Mail Boxes Ect campuse....) all the time. Then when they learn that their orange is not as good as the apple they throw a fit and wonder why their orange can't be viewed as an apple. Okay, class why can't an orange be an apple? Because they are different!

Are there great online education opportunites for students? Yes! Are they discussed much in the confines of this forum? No, not on a regular basis unless someone was denied from a name school and then want to trash that institutions programs. In fact I will give an example of a friend of mine who is currently enrolled in what I would call a "great online graduate program". I have a friend who is in the Kelley MBA program at Indiana University (Please don't kill yourself looking for the few threads, that have been very positive about the Kelley MBA. I have already read them thanks!). To me that is a great program. It is both RA and professionally accredited, making it a degree that is very viable in the job market. For grins lets juxtapose that program with the one at ____________________ (Insert a low quality, online only, un-accredited school for comparison). Is Kelley a well respected name? Yes. Is _________________ ? Yeah, not so much. Will Kelley prepare you for the marketpalce? Most likely. Will _____________? Yeah, not so much. Does Kelley have graduates placed in key companies around the globe that can identify with your program? Yes! Does _______________? Yeah, not so much. I think that you are begining to see a pattern. There are things to be said for attending a quality, accredited distance education program. But for the most part these are not the type of programs that are deing discussed in this forum.

I am glad that DL is growing and giving more people than ever to better their lives through education. However, I am also fearful that if we offer too much too fast that we (College graduates in general) will begin to see a devaluation of our degrees. It is already common knowledge that a BA is now the high school diploma of years gone by and thats a shame. No, I am not about restricting people "rights" to education or reserving education for the "haves" but there need to be some check and balences in place for something as important a college educations.

In refference to Norths statements about my previous post:

"Rather than making silly statements (including about the age and lack of accredition of programs people here are pursuing) you ought to read a little more and ask questions. Some of your stuff is waaaaaaay out there. "

I am not the one that is getting upset by the mere mention of my educational institution am I? Maybe my comments are hitting a little close to home? Fact is I am glad that enjoy your program and feel that it will meet your needs. I just think that someone needs to serve as a "other opinion" if you will in these discussions. I generally get attacked by people who laud low-no quality institutions, and I use that term loosely in refference to those palces. I just want to remind people, who may be new or just seufing the net looking for information, that there are good high quality DL opportunities avaliable. Just know that they are hard to find and that some folks may not be receptive to the idea. I see mine as a devils advocate type role, and I rather enjoy it!

Jeff Whetzel

"I never let schooling interfere with my education."
-Twain

 

Jeff,

Just an observation. This thread started out as a discussion of the negative views of some trad academics regarding dl programs - specifically related to Capella, a regionally accredited school with aspirations of professional accreditation (at least in its clinical psy doctoral program).

The thread contained some very helpful and well articulated discussions of the problem, and continued to remain pretty tightly focused on Capella w/ Fielding coming in as a comparion/contrast to the school.

However, the thread lost its focus with your post. And I believe it was because your post reframed the discussion as one involving non-accredited dl degrees. It also seemed to go further and appeared to assume that all other posters were promoting non-accredited dl degress and even diploma mills.

Your post also seemed to contain negative value judgements about the other participants of this thread, which further clouded the issue and lead it further from its original purpose.

Again, just an observation.

Regards,

GME
Who is considering Capella after completing a trad MA in psych.

 

I think we just need to recognize flamebait for what it is...

Hey Jeff, about your fill-in-the-black scenario: Do you really think that many Purdue and IU students/grads aren't saying similar things about Ball State?

Is Purdue a well respected name? Yes. Is __Ball State__? Yeah, not so much. Will Purdue prepare you for the marketpalce? Most likely. Will __Ball State__? Yeah, not so much. Does Purdue have graduates placed in key companies around the globe that can identify with your program? Yes! Does __Ball State__? Yeah, not so much. I think that you are begining to see a pattern.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Anyone from just about any school can say such things about "lesser" schools. That doesn't make the "lesser" schools illegitimate or lacking in value, and they are certainly good options for many people. If that weren't the case then the only RA schools we'd have would be the top schools, and only an elite few would even have valid degrees.

Your assertion that only programs of limited value or questionable legitimacy are discussed or recommended on this forum flies in the face of the facts. In fact it's so ludicrous that I have to call it what it is: flamebait. I may have nibbled, but I'm not hooked.

 

Re: This is a common response to DL in academia

Hmm...I was just about ready to help you out with your definition of unaccredited, until I read this.

and

Thank you for redefining your argument. Okay, so there needs to be a line drawn in the sand. Who should draw this line, you? Perhaps you should remember that unless you draw the line for th establishment, your own degree may not make the cut. This is why we have regional and to a lesser extent, national accrediting agencies. Their job is to draw the line as to what constitutes a credible educational institution.
Oh yeah, most posters on this forum only recommend RA institutions or their foreign equivalent. If you have not noticed this, then I suggest you take North's suggestion and read with a little more comprehension than you have shown so far.

Oh my, did you forget what unaccredited means again? Or did you forget how you re=defined what you meant? Or maybe you just still believe that the schools suggested here (CSU, Touro, Nova, RIT, Auburn) can't possibly be accredited?

I don't mind devil's advocate's, in fact I play the role myself at times, but they need to stick to the facts. You are either confused, or you are purposefully making false statements and redefining your position after it has been successfully countered. No offense meant, but I doubt anyone will take your position as a credible one, even the few parts they would otherwise agree with.

Tony

P.S. My lawyer has always said he loves people who try to re-define what they mean. Then again, he has a sadistic streak in him.

 

Re: The same old story...

Jeff,

I do not think anyone is upset with your arguments. Rather, we are trying to correct the illogic of your posts.

John

 

Re: The same old story...

...........................

"I never let the facts interfere with my opinions."
-Whetzel




"Wait a minute Bill, what opinions does Jeff not base on facts?"

Well just for example, since you insist:

1) degreeinfo is a bunch of retirees exchanging stories about their un accredited mill degrees, and,

2) National accreditors are a dime a dozen, and,

3) anyone, even me, could become a national accreditor, and,

4) no jobs for foreign DL degree holders, and,

5) most DL programs discussed here have a bad reputation, and,

6) this forum has a something for nothing mentality, and etc,.


Sure you didn't go to BULL state Jeff?????????

 

Re: Not sure what you are referring to... clarify?

'Bird, yes there are core areas required of all APA approved programs. They are as follows: biological bases of behavior, cognitive-affective bases of behavior, social aspect of behavior, hx and systems of psychology, psychological measurement, research methodology, and data analysis.

Perhaps you may find your interests grow and change as you develop into a psychologist; I certainly did. When I started the doctorate my interests focused on treatment and I would never have imagined that I would become interested in bio bases or assessment. By the time I finished I did a psychophysiological dissertation, took lots of bio and neuropsych, and a host of assessment courses. Perhaps if you're lucky Capella will be approved by the time you complete your degree. As I recall, if the student completes the program during any form of approval, provisional or even on probation, he or she is credited with having graduated from an APA approved program.

David

 

Re: The same old story...

This statement alone indicates that you are, as Gary suggested above, little more than a troll. You make inflammatory statements such as this, offer no evidence and then refuse to answer the resulting questions. You've been asked to back up your statements, in this and other threads, and have consistently refused. So ... direct challenge ... show me some unbiased evidence that the above statement is true. Some study, some research, something substantial. You're saying that high school students in, say 1940, knew as much as college graduates in 2002. You're saying this is "common knowledge." I'm saying you're wrong. Ignore this challenge and assume the role of a common troll. Fail to prove your point and become a blowhard. Prove your point (and I mean PROVE it, not just restate your own feeble opinion) and become a pundit.
Jack

 

Jeff:

Please.. please, tell me that you're not the Jeff Whetzel of Indiana Wesleyan Online, the one who theoretically answers questions that prospective students might pose about IWU's distance programs. Please.

 

ATTN RUSSELL

 

Blackbird,

I believe you stated that you were planning to utilize your current license, LMHC, along with a doctorate in Psychology. If you intend to switch from a family concentration to clinical and don't intend to obtain licensure as a Psychologist, there is really little benefit in terms of future employment or professional opportunities for obtaining an APA degree.

Please note that when you initially responded to my posting regarding my interpretation of the differences between Fielding and Capella, I percieved your reference to APA standardization to be referring to general distinctions between clinical and research competencies, and responded accordingly. Obviously, if you were referring to specific standardized core course requirements for psychology doctorates you are correct. I apologize if I mispercieved the specific issue you were addressing.

Simon

 

Re: ATTN RUSSELL

 

How many Jeff Whetzels in the field of DL could there possibly be???


Bruce

 

Not many; hence, the stabbing pain behind my eyes when I imagine potential students calling IWU, getting Jeff, and being told that the DL degree Jeff theoretically markets won't be well received once earned.

 

Perhaps even more to the point, how many Jeff Whetzels could there be who style themselves 'student affairs professionals' and live within 40 miles or so of Indiana Wesleyan (per this poster's profile)?

<<As a Christ centered university, Indiana Wesleyan University’s NCATE accredited Master of Education program develops teachers to be "Agents of Change" in the >> (this appears to be the online program that the IWU Jeff Whetzel is affiliated with. Isn't NCATE a national accrediting body of some sort?)

Hmmmmm, the thicket thickens.

GME