How would this degree be viewed outside of Oregon?

the carib is fine

The school is fine and there are other schools that are fine models of education as well. Ross, SABA, St. George, AUC, UHSA, etc.... all are fine medical academy.

If the school is recognized by its Island Gov. it is fine, but it appears now, schools need to be recognized by: Home Government, ODA and some xenophobic posters.

 

Re: the carib is fine

It also needs to be WHO listed.

 

Why

Why does it need to be WHO listed?



Before the the ECFMG/FAIMER/IMED listing began, there was only the WHO listing. From around 2000-2002, the WHO decided to drop the listing. Maybe they were not making money from the listing, because you were supposed to order the booklet of the WORLD DIRECTORY Of MEDICAL SCHOOLs but along came the internet and "proof" not making any money because people would look up the medical school for free.

It seems now the WHO will now begin again to list schools.

But, the ECFMG maintains the WHO old list and the new ones.

http://imed.ecfmg.org/search.asp


WHO listing and ECFMG listing means nothing; only means the HOME GOV recognizes the medical school.


PD POST DATA: Maybe the WHO listing is worth less now, since a medical school that was closed down was -WHO listed.

Look for St Luke School of Medicine - Liberia and Ghana West Africa, they made the WHO listing and the ECFMG Lisiting.
On ECFMG they were listed from two COUNTRY (not one) - Ghana and Liberia.

Government Recognition is the key.

 

the carib may or may not be fine in CA

In practice, many people evaluate the reputation of Caribbean medical schools by checking their status in California. For example, the following quote is from http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/medschools.htm :

"The importance of California licensure: states in the U.S. are becoming increasingly strict with regard to recognizing foreign medical diplomas, in particular from graduates of new offshore Caribbean medical schools. Most states are slowly, but surely, approaching the high standards of California, which is the strictest state. Therefore, it is best to only consider schools that are licensed in California, as the other states in the U.S. will soon adopt the same guidelines as to which foreign medical diplomas they recognize."

California does recognize several Caribbean schools, including some of those listed above. But California does not recognize many other Caribbean schools, including MUA. On the other hand, MUA is not on the list of California "disapproved" schools either.

I suspect that Caribbean schools fall on a spectrum from completely legit to totally bogus. MUA probably falls somewhere in between. Its degrees are not respectable enough to be accepted everywhere, but they can be accepted in some situations. Its degrees are not so disreputable that they will be rejected everywhere, but they will be rejected in some situations.

The original question was "would [the degree] be seen as a diploma mill [degree], as a degree equivalent to a U.S degree or a respectable but unaccredited degree?" The answer is "yes": it could be seen as any one of those things, depending on the situation.

Presumably you want to use this degree for the remainder of your professional career, which could span decades. If regulatory criteria are generally tightening, as suggested above, then the long-term trend is probably not in favor of this degree, unless MUA aggressively pursues California approval or other widely-recognized symbols of legitimacy.

 

WHO listing needed for licensing

Some examples of the many out there for physician licensing...

"Medical doctors who are graduates of Medical Schools listed in the World Health Organization Directory, who are not Canadian citizens or permanent residents of Canada, can apply for residency or fellowship training of a maximum of three years if they meet the conditions outlined below. Exceptions may be made for physicians accepted in an exchange program approved by the Collège des médecins and the Ministry of Health of Quebec (see "Other Graduates 2" section which follows)." http://www.medicine.mcgill.ca/postgrad/admission_nmf_othergrads1.htm

For fifth pathway(like New York for those students coming from Gualdalajara)...
"Who can qualify for a Fifth Pathway?
Only students who: Graduated from an accredited American college or university; Studied medicine at a medical school located outside the United States that is listed in World Health Organization's World Directory of Medical Schools and which requires a year or more of internship/social service (beyond the four years of medical school) before receiving a medical degre..." http://www.fiu.edu/~preprofc/International_medicine.htm

Wisconsin licensing for physicians...
"Graduate of an accredited medical or osteopathic school recognized by the AMA or AOA or graduate from a program recognized by the World Health Organization of the United Nations"

Alabama Physician licensing requirements...
The medical school must be listed at the time of an applicant’s graduation in the World Directory of Medical Schools published by the World Health Organization."
http://www.albme.org/app-req.htm[
/url]

 

?

Laferny,

Perhaps there are graduates who have gone through the NACES and AACRAO evaluation. It would be interesting to find out if their degree from MUA is equivalent to a U.S. RA, NA, State Approved or non accredited degree.

Has any graduate had their MUA degree evaluated??

 

To Delta :
I don't know. I have e-mailed AACRAO and NACES to ask how they view the school but no response received. I will post it when and if received.
To CalDog:
Appreciate your post. What other symbols of legitamacy are there? They are accredited by St. Kitts and Nevis, WHO listed, and meet the criteria of the American Association of International Medical Graduates. Graduates of the school have received certification as school nurses and licensure in many states as physicians. ODA doesn't classify MUA as a diploma mill as it does many schools and I suppose not being on Cailfornia's disapproved list is better than being on. Again it appears that NACES or AACRAO offers the best view of it's worth.
And again I'm looking at the PH.D proram , not the M.D

 

no MD Degree

Many of the state regulations quoted were in existence before the IMED created its own list.

Again, even being in the WHO and/or IMED list does not mean the graduate is elegible for licensure as an MD. No matter if he passes the USMLE, steps 1,2,3 and the CSA, no matter if he is in residency, he /she may not be able to able to obtain licensure.

California approval is a joke, unless you are going to practice medicine in california.

But getting back on topic, laferney is interested in a PhD, not an MD.

Should be no trouble getting it evaluated as equivelent to RA.

 

Bullet said:
"California approval is a joke, unless you are going to practice medicine in california."

And all of us in California really appreciate that!

 

Bullet said:
"PD POST DATA: Maybe the WHO listing is worth less now, since a medical school that was closed down was -WHO listed."

Well I guess that eliminates the WHO from the what ,where , how and why line of questioning when considering DL school.

 

See this thread:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=174156

 

Re: not specific enough

The original question was how a Ph.D. from MUA would be received, presumably by the academic-professional-scientific world here in the United States. The best way to predict that is to inquire into how the school is being received by that community right now.

Doing a search for references to MUA and then looking at who is talking and at what they are saying is probably a useful way to sample that.

 

Reviewed it and see your suspicions. However I don't see any connection to anyone who would want to promote MUA or that the postive report was solicted or done with anyone connected to MUA.
So far the count seems to be mixed on the value of the acceptance of the Ph.d program. WHAt are the thoughts about bullets statement "Should be no trouble getting it evaluated as equivelent to RA." A few reputable but non- NACES members have e-mailed me to say they would consider it equivalent but again if it is not NACES or AACRAO it might not mean much.

 

Many of these "offshore" schools(and they are not just in the islands) are run by somewhat less than reputable people. I will likely not include SGU, Ross, and AUC in the mix because they tend to put out the most docs of any of these schools and have been around a long while.

If you look at even St. Christopher's they sort of skirt the law pretty good. Oh, and if you are interested, St. Christopher's is supposed to be starting a PhD up in the medical sciences, too. Their admissions director is an osteopath that lost his license to practice here(lots of lawsuits with him). I think he's in Michigan and would be med students have to go through him to get in.

St Chris is chartered out of Africa but they actually are in England. They use the facilities of other schools there to teach their med students. You have to watch out. You don't want to be stuck like with the students at Kigezi. One day you are a Year 3 student and then the next day you are out on the street. They closed down and their students got hit hard. You take a chance with any of those three schools but some tend to be better than others.

Saba is a good pick. I would not say that St Matthews is a crummy one either. UNIBE was putting out some solid numbers for passing USMLE 1. Newer startups like Windsor and St. James are going to get people into medicine but then again you are going to take a chance that you won't be able to practice where you want one day.

Then, you really have to look at where you want to practice. For instance, you can go to St. Chris and do a residency in New York. However, I believe the NY laws are such that you cannot practice in NY after your residency. If you are in a PhD program it is obviously not a licensing deal.

 

MD recognition would contribute to PhD recognition

Understood. But anyone who wants to evaluate the legitimacy of MUA will start by checking on the status of their MD degrees. Every state has a medical board that routinely evaluates MD degrees. In contrast, there is probably no state, other than Oregon, with an agency that routinely evaluates PhD degrees.

So in practice, the recognition (or lack thereof) accorded to an MUA PhD degree may depend, in part, on the answer to the following question:

Do your state licensing boards recognize MUA medical and nursing degrees?

Some state boards (such as California's, or states that follow California) apparently reject MUA medical degrees. If your state is among them, then an MUA PhD degree would be on shaky ground. A critic could argue that the PhD was from a quack medical school, one whose medical degrees are not legal for professional use under the laws of your home state. In this case, the PhD degree could still be legal, but it might generate ridicule, rather than respect.

Other state boards are apparently more flexible, and may accept MUA medical degrees. If you can truthfully say that your state boards respect MUA medical degrees, then that would be a good answer to a critic.

Of course, state board regulations vary widely from state to state, and from year to year. What is the current status of MUA medical degrees in your home state? And are these regulations expected to change in the future?

 

laferney:

www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

 

Thanks for the post FWD but I don't see much listed there that is relevent To MUA. MUA's medical school is not an Internet based "virtual" school but a real medical school that must be done on location -accepts only 40 students a semester with reasonable tuition. MUA offers no credit to chiropracters or other medical personel.
And the story about the DCs with PHDs is about Columbia Pacific U., a notorius degree mill.
Yes MUA is accepted by the medical board in my state and there are graduates practicing medicine here. One must be careful not to lump all these schools together-there are differences. MUA is modeled after medical schools in the USA. The PHD is modeled after research degrees often promoted on this site. Do a dissertation etc. just as one would do with UNISA for example.
I understand CalDogs concerns- I don't think acceptance would be an issue here , esp. if the dissertation produced is of good quality and published.

 

I'll ask one more question, then let it go . IF NACES or AACRAO reviwed MUA and felt the Ph.D was equivalent to a US Doctorate
would that satisfy posters here that the program is worthwhile and useable. I know if it wasn't equivelent I wouldn't want it. Would that overcome the stigma of caribbean medical schools and the ODA listing? Thanks for all postings-you've helped me sort this out.

 

laferney:

You're welcome. It was posted merely to demonstrate that a problem exists in that region.

You really should ask your state medical board and contact graduates and discuss this with them.

Dan

 

FWD 4WD AWD

FWD,

No offensivness for the great people of California; I am refering to the California Approval Process for - foreign medical graduates or even students that wish to practice in California Hospitals.

On Channel 7: People say "State Approval" means nothing for a University.

On Channel 8: State Approval is now very worthy when it comes to Medical Students or Graduates.