Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Lauradglas, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Remember that a state approved but unaccredited school will have more limited utility. One thing to consider is that you may wish to move elsewhere some day and not many states accept unaccredited degrees for licensure purposes.
  2. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Why are your very first words on ths board insults? Why are they directed to things that were said on an old thread from three years ago?

    I suppose that's true, in a very small number of rather special cases. But given that more than 90% of non-accredited schools are either seriously substandard or flat-out mills, the burden of proof is always going to be on the individual with the unaccredited degree to make a convincing case for it. It's only rational to approach these things with a-priori skepticism.

    That's not true. The original discussion was about distance learning programs. Accredited bricks-and-mortar schools use everything from large lecture hall introductory courses, through all sorts of labs and field-classes, to small graduate seminars and one-on-one tutorials. The most common format is probably 15-30 students in a lecture-discussion class.

    Are you suggesting that everyone considering a non-accredited school can safely generalize from your anonymous experience at some unnamed school?
    I agree about the "inexpensive" part. Most non-accredited schools are appallingly overpriced. Many are simply internet con-artists hoping to sweet-talk fools into sending them thousands of dollars in exchange for a worthless piece of paper.

    Regarding the "stringent" part, my question to you is how you propose that prospective students, employers and clients distinguish the credible non-accredited schools from the mills. Keep in mind that many of these people aren't particularly knowledgeable about higher education and don't have a great deal of time to devote to the task.

    What ethical uses do you see for credible non-accredited schools and their programs in this kind of world?
  3. aptmusic

    aptmusic New Member


    Some of them are great for career enrichment, specialization in fields that traditional Universities and colleges ignore, non-traditional class formats, revolutionary thinkers and those who want to break out of the traditional educational mold. Those who are interested in serving our communities and schools in unique ways. Our world needs innovative thinkers and people to create their own careers and worlds. Goodness knows our economy is down the crapper, our public education and public services need help from the private sector....

    My former undergrad http://www.shimer.edu/

    another buddhist / somatic or non-traditional colleges. not sure if accredited or not. Not endorsing, just linking. There are more.

  4. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    The BBS has a list of California schools that offer degrees/courses leading to MFT licensure at http://www.bbs.ca.gov/app-reg/mft_schools.shtml
    I would be surprised if you could not find a reasonably priced (for CA residents) degree at a Cal state U campus.
  5. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    It was Brown Institute in Minneapolis. It is now known as Brown College. At the time I attended, it was simply state approved (I didn't know anything about accreditation back then. I believe it is now nationally accredited.

    The school had a fantastic reputation in the broadcasting industry at the time I enrolled. Former TV newscaster and current actress Bree Walker and radio personality George McFly are among its alumni. This school helped me obtain my very first job in commercial radio.
  6. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

    I have found that states can define reciprocity differently. My social work license (not the same a a MFT license but similar) in Rhode Island required a grad school transcript despite my having a social work license in Massachusetts.

    As an aside I would look for a marriage and family therapy program that also prepares one for licensure as a counselor, since in some states licensed marriage and family therapists are unable to receive third party payments (licensed counselors and social workers usually can).

  7. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Yup, the high cost of California MFT programs is a scandal, especially given the poor $ return on investment once you are licensed.

    And the issue here (for you) IS the licensing first and last. This case, I think, is the exception to the rule of avoiding state approved schools at all cost. If the state approved school you choose has a track record of placing their students at an approved site the required 3000 hours, and if those students graduate with the required 48 hours course credits with the correct distribution, and pass the state exams, and find employment thereafter - well, then it's a good deal at 10 grand. In fact, it's a wonderful deal. If you think you might want to practice in another state at some time, the it's not as good.

    Some MFT's go on to do an RA non-licensable PhD to complement their accredited master's. You might look to do that but at master's level at some future date - do an RA academic Psych degree to complement, not your unaccredited degree, but rather your MFT license (and the experience you have gained because of it, in the interim).

    You mentioned Pacifica (GI)? – I spent a day there last week at an admissions "seminar" looking at their PhD programs. Their MFT master’s will set you back 40 grand – or more, if you include the 50 hours of personal therapy students are required to undergo. That’s 40,000 and two years of your life for a job that may pay you only 40,000 odd a year at the start, and may top out at less than 60,000 long term. Their clinical psych PhD program (non APA) will run in at around $125,000 all in (at today’s rates) and seven years of your life (including the 2 years post doc) for an annual salary that may not exceed $80,000. The true cost, including tuition hikes and opportunity costs (both of realized cash and of lost earnings), in constant dollars, will run closer to quarter of a million dollars before you’re done. That money for a program that’s not even APA yet.

    Pacifica’s tuition is only slightly above the average. The whole thing is insane from an economic standpoint. It might be best to have your brain examined by spending some money on the MFT required 50 hours therapy first, THEN decide if you still want to go through with the program!

    California Lutheran University has a truly excellent MFT program for around 25 grand – mostly night classes - good if you can commute – depends where you are.

    Given the realities facing you, your existing plan is perhaps the most prudent option, as long as you do due diligence on the unaccredited school’s clear record of producing results (licensed MFTs).
  8. CRS0410

    CRS0410 New Member

    I have looked at World University in Ojai -- Online Degrees in Counseling and Integral Psychology because of the price. It is a California state approved school which can lead to a MFT license in CA. Here's the link to bbs.ca.gov: BBS - Approved Schools with MFT Degree Programs

    If you are going to stay and work in California - why the heck not? I chose CalSouthern because it is similarly priced and they have payment plans which Ojai does not. If Ojai did have a payment plan, I'd go there instead.
  9. JWC

    JWC New Member

    If you have a clinical license that's all that employers care about.
  10. Hokiephile

    Hokiephile New Member

    I'm an academic law librarian in California. The requirements are:

    Pursuant to Chapter 3, Rule 4.26 of the Admissions Rules general applicants must

    A. be graduates of law schools approved by the American Bar Association or accredited by the Committee; or
    B. demonstrate that in accordance with these rules they have
    1. studied law diligently and in good faith for at least four years in a law school registered with the Committee; in a law office; in a judge's chambers; or by some combination of these methods; or
    2. met the requirements of these rules for legal education in a foreign state or country; and

    C. have passed or established exemption from the First-Year Law Students' Examination.

    The State Bar of California | Legal Education

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