Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by jra, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. jra

    jra Member

  2. japhy4529

    japhy4529 House Bassist

    Well, it doesn't appear that they're selling degrees, however they are not accredited.

    From the ampac.edu website:



    Note: In the United States, many licensing authorities require accredited degrees as the basis for eligibility for licensing. In some cases, accredited colleges may not accept for transfer courses and degrees completed at unaccredited colleges, and some employers may require an accredited degree as a basis for eligibility for employment.

    Apparently, they couldn't be bothered with running a spell check on the site either.. The word "hypnotherapy" (something that they should get right!) is spelled incorrectly under the "Degree" drop down menu.

    - Tom
  3. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Thread-starters: Please... always provide a link to the institution about which you're inquiring. It not only saves those whose opinion you're soliciting from having to Google said institution and find its web site so they can take a look, but it also ensures that the web site they look at is owned by the same institution about which you're inquiring.

    In this case, we're talking about this place, which is unaccredited and, therefore, would not normally be able to use the .edu top level domain (TLD) in its web site URL... except that its use thereof was "grandfathered in" because it owned its domain name before Educause (the keeper of the .edu TLD) changed it policy to require that any .edu TLD owner must be accredited by a USDE- and/or CHEA-approved agency.

    AMPAC appears to be legit, but just unaccredited. It requires real work; but as with all unaccredited programs, there's no way of knowing if the amount of work is the same as what it would be if AMPAC were accredited; or if there is any rigor, generally. That, of course, is the whole problem with legitimate-but-unaccredited institutions: In order for a graduate therefrom to get anyone to take his/her credential seriously, said "anyone" in this sentence would have to perform his/her own due diligence and would not have the minimum standard of accrediation upon which to rely in making his/her determination. Getting an unaccredited credential places an undue burden on those to whom it is presented. It's easier and less time-consuming for the presentee to just dismiss it if it's not accredited... which is what happens in most cases.

    If the trend around here to look down on institutions that claim bogus accreditation is valid, then AMPAC has at least one blemish in its past: It once claimed "accreditation" by International Association of Schools, Colleges, and Universities that was (and remains) unapproved by either the US Department of Education (USDE) or its Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA).

    If we define "accredited" as approved by an agency that's approved by USDE and/or CHEA, I can tell you, categorically, that there is no such thing as an accredited degree in hypnosis or hypnotherapy anywhere in the United States. So any time you see someone claiming to have a PhD in Clinical Hypnotherapy -- such as that which AMPAC awards, for example -- it may or may not be legitimate in terms of it having been rigorous and required of its holder serious work; but one things it's guaranteed not to be is "accredited." Period. There's simply no such thing.

    Now, there are accredited hypnosis/hypnotherapy credentials out there; but they tend to be certificates and/or diplomas. There are a handful of accredited colleges and universities that offer for-credit (but usually not-for-credit) certificates and/or diplomas in "hypnosis" or "hypnotherapy." Usually, however, the accredited college or university offers just a course or two... often not-for-credit (though sometimes for credit); or sometimes accredited graduate psychology programs will add some sort of hypnotherapy certification or endorsement classification to masters or doctoral degrees.

    Except for as described above, the only hypnosis or hypnotherapy credential of any sort that can make a legitimate claim to accreditation, as I've defined it in this post, is the DETC-accredited, fully distance learning Professional Hypnotherapy Certification Program from the Hypnosis Motivation Institute (HMI) in Tarzana, California. I'm not saying it's the best (although it may well be) program out there. I'm simply saying it's the only one that can make any legitimate claim to being "accredited" by an agency that's USDE- and/or CHEA-approved... except, maybe, as earlier mentioned, for the occasional (and I would add, as a practical matter, the word "oddball") non-credit certificate that some regionally-accredited community college might offer; or maybe a certificate or endorsement attached to an accredited psych masters or doctorate somewhere. It's worthy of note that other parts of HMI's body of programs have other USDE- and/or CHEA-approved accreditations -- and several other fairly impressive approvals and/or endorsements -- as outlines here.

    Now, I will warn you that there is great -- and I mean huge -- disagreement among the legitimate players in the hypnosis/hypnotherapy world about this very issue. Those with PhDs from such as AMPAC get all up in arms at the notion that their degree is not just as good as if it were accredited; or that they are not expert at what they do. There is also quite an ongoing disagreement about the whole business -- bad blood, if you will -- between the owners of HMI (primarily George Kappas) and its(his) arch-rival... a fellow named Gil Boyne. I've watched the two of them debate and, frankly, Boyne comes across as more bitter and a bit more of a flake, just generally. That said, there's no question that Boyne is legit and knows what he's talking about; and that his various ventures out there are not any kind of rip-off or anything like that. Still, between the two of them, Kappas is the one who clearly valued legitimate accreditation and bothered to go out and get it. That should tell you something.

    The web is rife with all manner of hypnosis/hypnotherapy associations and societies and trade groups... most of which are intended to convey credibility, sometimes even where there really is none. One must be very careful about such places and the programs they proffer or endorse. By and large, the only associations/societies for hypnotherapists that have any real credibility are the ones that will only allow those with professional licensure in mental health care to be members.

    Another organization that's about as legit as it gets is the Milton Erickson Foundation in Phoenix... which also won't accept anyone into its membership who isn't a licensed medical healthcare professional of some sort. (Was it Groucho Marx who once said: "I would never join any club that would have me as a member!"?)

    Outside the handful of associations that only allow licensed healthcare professionals to join, there are very few others that are anything even close to legit. Gil Boyne appears to have formed one of them with his American Council of Hypnotist Examiners (ACHE)... and even that sort of rides right on the edge of being just some membership group that pretty much one guy threw together so that those who join it can have a cool professional membership seal/logo that they can display on their web sites and in literature. It offers more than that, of course... which I'll get into momentarily.

    HMI formed its own membership association which has, in my opinion, a bit more credibility (and would have even more credibility if it had its own web site, apart from HMI's)... and a measurably better benefits package, overall. HMI's graduates may also join a legitmate union (The Hypnotherapists Union Local 472) that's actually a part of the AFL-CIO, and which offers its own set of benefits. Membership in a legitmate union that's part of a recognized collective bargaining organization like the AFL-CIO -- no matter how one feels about unions, generally -- conveys a certain credibility that membership in an association of unknown origin cannot. Whether that's actually a good thing, all things considered, is another matter altogether... which I'm not addressing here.

    Perhaps surprisingly, some of the best legitmate hypnotherapy training -- aside from that already mentioned elsewhere herein -- is offered by a few schools that are members of Boyne's ACHE. Of course, not a one of them is "accredited" as I've defined it in this post.

    For example, in California, the Hypnotherapy Training Institute (HTI) in Santa Rosa is about as good as that type of training establishment can probably get... notwithstanding its chaotic and amateurish web site. I note on it that, in direct response to HMI's DETC-accredited distance learning program, HTI makes, throughout its site, several disparaging remarks about hypnotherapy training by videotape... further evidencing the longtime feud between the ACHE Boynians, and the HMI Kappas's.

    Another good one is the Alchemy Institute of Hypnosis (AIH), also in Santa Rosa. It's sufficiently well-respected that it's linked-to from the web sites of several institutions which offer accredited psychology programs... like this one, for example... just to name one.

    There are others.

    In California, hypnosis/hypnotherapy falls into the general category of "complementary healthcare" which is regulated by the California Business and Professions Code, Sections §§ 2053.5 and 2053.6. Finding a good training program -- especially one that's accredited -- which honors the intent of that regulation can be difficult. HMI is probably the best choice. That said, AMPAC appears to be serious about it, too... and can award that impressive-sounding -- and unaccredited -- PhD, if one's got one's heart set thereupon.
  4. mineralhh

    mineralhh New Member

    First, I would REALLY think about whether you want to do a hypnotherapy distance learning course. To me personally, this is a lot like learning horse riding from breyer state. If you know what hypnotherapy is about, you'll soon get to the point when you'll realize that this is not about technique, hell there is very little technique. It's about training your communication skills, your appearence youe "style", the way you do things, not what you do. Can you learn this well via distance learning??

    However if you feel that distance learning hypnotherapy is good for you, I would strongly advise you to go for AMPAC. Tad James is in my opinion one of the best known players in this field (both hypnotherapy as well as nlp), so if you are heading for these circles you surely don't go wrong with these credentials.
  5. laferney

    laferney Member

    cheapest "doctorate" in Hypnotherapy -all unaccredited

    Given that there are no accredited doctoral programs in hypnotherapy I believe APU to be a legitimate but unaccredited school. It developed the model similiar to the PsyD model in Psychology for a practitioner's doctoral degree in Hypnotherapy (D.C.H ) Also a Ph.D . Critics say hypnotherapy is a technique but APU educates on all the practical uses in Hypnotherapy -from medical uses, psychological uses, and the less accepted uses, ie " Past lives therapy" Given the advance of psychoneuroimmunolgy and many applications of medical uses -pain control . lamaze, habit control, an adjunct to psychotherapy etc. one could easily make the case that doctoral study is warrented. Criticisms of the school are that many of it's faculty have unaccredited degrees and the studying of subjects as stage hypnosis and "past lives therapy" hurt it's image. But in the field of hypnotherapy as a university studies field they are the innovators and the training in this program requires study. It is the most serious and respected in the schools proposing hypnotherapy as a legitimate field of graduate study. Costs -over 6 thousand dollars and coats of texts.
    Another drawback is that several "less than desireable" schools as Breyer State (over 5000 dollars and books) and Calamus (4-5 thousand plus books) now offer the D.C.H -making APU's once innovative Doctoral degree designation (DCH) look seem millish.
    If one wants an unaccredited Doctorate in Hypnotherapy the cheapest option ($495.00) is found at http://www.parapsychologydegrees.com/
    From their brochure:
    "The American International University external degree program, recommended by the American Council on Education and the American Association for Parapsychology, provides the opportunity as it has for many successful AIU graduates who are actively pursuing careers in the field. {Given }the fact that Parapsychology and related subjects are not offered as a degree majors at residential colleges or universities, American International University's external degree program can be the road to a bright and successful future in one of life's most rewarding careers - helping people
    DISTANCE LEARNING FORMAT _______________________________________________________________________ The distance learning programs are highly personalized to meet each student's individual needs and qualifications. For the mature individual special consideration is given for accumulated life experience. All course work materials and exams (open book) are provided and are included in the cost of tuition. There are no additional material fees. There is no set time limit for completion of a course. Most students are able to complete a course in three weeks to two months, and a degree program in six to fourteen months. Successful completion of an open book examination, in an area of special interest to the student, may be substituted for a thesis or dissertation, if one is required. Previously published material or book manuscripts relevant to the degree may be substituted to meet this requirement. When all requirements have been met for the student's individual program, including final approval from the University , on all educational materials, subject papers, thesis or dissertation, if required, the degree is awarded.
    Ph.D., CLINICAL HYPNOTHERAPY AND PASTORAL COUNSELING _______________________________________________________________________ PHD401- HYPNOTHERAPY AND PASTORAL COUNSELING- Provides important legal aspects of certification, ordination, client referrals, private practice or pastoral setting. PHD402- HYPNOTHERAPY: FAITH AND HYPNOSIS- Techniques of guided imagery; visualization and relaxation. Prayerful use of hypnosis employed in the ministry of compassion. PHD403-THEORIES AND HISTORY OF THERAPEUTIC HEALING- An overview of the theories and history of therapeutic healing. The unused potential of hypnosis and benefits for physical, mental and spiritual health. PHD404- SELF-HYPNOSIS AND COUNSELING- The importance and significance of self-hypnosis; limitations of hetero-suggestion; uses and applications of hypnosis; prescriptions for psychological problems: overcoming bad habits; for emergencies;applications and counseling for children and the elderly. PHD405-SUGGESTIBILITY EXERCISES Principles and preparation for trance induction; suggestibility and reflexive testing; strategies to work with resistance; permissive and authoritarian suggestibility procedures. PHD406-HYPNOTIC INDUCTION TECHNIQUES- Principles of trance induction; hypnotic conditioning; alteration of time sense of subject; progressive relaxation; conversions; confusion; shock; fascination-fatigue; asessing depth of the hypnotic state. PHD407-RAPID INDUCTION TECHNIQUES- Designed to provide the student with techniques of rapid trance induction; visual imagery techniques; auditory methods; mechanical and elecronic facilitation; and non-verbal methods. PHD408-POST-HYPNOTIC INDUCTION PROCEDURES- An overview of knowing what to say; the power of positive expression; referring only to the future; one thing at a time; making a contribution; therapeutic prescriptions. PHD409-EXHALTATION OF INTELLECTUAL POWERS IN HYPNOSIS- Non-therapeutic applications of hypnosis for creativity; enhancing confidence; work habits; sports; stage fright; relaxation. PHD410-THE HYPNOTIC INTERVIEW AND PUBLIC RELATIONS- How to conduct an hypnotic interview; interdisciplinary referrals; lectures;demonstrations; adult school courses; consulting with law enforcement agencies; hospitals and clinics; newspaper publicity.
    The course in actuality is equal to a good 3 hour upper level undergraduate course or beginning graduate level course in hypnotherapy and you will learn useful info. As a doctoral credential it is equally as useful ( or unuseful) as one from Breyer or Calamus at a fraction of the cost.
    I'm not advocating unaccredited degrees or mills. In this unaccredited world of doctoral hypntherapy university training all are unaccredited so if you're inclined to go there this is your cheapest option.
  6. George Brown

    George Brown New Member

    Re: cheapest "doctorate" in Hypnotherapy -all unaccredited

    Why do you think this is the case?


  7. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    To precisely which "American International University external degree program" are you referring? Link, please.

    Wait a minute. How is this place different from a diploma/degree mill?

    According to its web page here, one can pay $49.95 each for tapes on any of the following:
    • Telepathy: Clairvoyance
    • Hypnosis and Sensory Awareness: Psychometry
    • Psychokinesis: Demo-Optic Perception
    • The Human Aura: Radiesthesia
    • Spiritual Healing: The Medium
    or one can pay $249 for "[l]ifetime Membership which includes all five cassettes in the Complete Parapsychology Certificate Program (10 hours), plus a 28-page Study Guide, Certificate of Membership and Diploma in Parapsychology."

    Separate and apart from any tapes, guides, courses, etc., are the following:
    • B.S. Parapsychology, $395
    • M.S. Parapsychology, $495
    • Ph.D. Parapsychology, $595
    • B.S. Metaphysics, $295
    • M.S. Metaphysics, $395
    • Ph. D. Metaphysics, $495
    It seems one is just buying the credential.

    Well, that's what MILLS do! This place is a mill. It's not merely unaccredited; it's a mill! It's so bad it makes AMPAC look like Indiana State University, and HMI look like Harvard or Yale.

    Now, the "unaccredited Doctorate in Hypnotherapy" to which you referred, for $495... is that from this mill, too? Or are you saying that that one's from American International University? If it's the former, then it's a joke. If it's the latter, it may or may not be a joke, depending on precisely which American International University you're talking about. Link, please!

    Also... just in the way of tryin' to be helpful (and consistent)...

    There's no way of easily and quickly distinguishing your last two paragraphs from those not your words which were were quoting. Please use either the QUOTE tag, or some other unambiguous and easily-recognizable method of letting the reader know when your words end, and the words of others begin... and vice versa. Thanks!
  8. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Re: Re: cheapest "doctorate" in Hypnotherapy -all unaccredited

    There are none -- at least I thought there were none -- in the US, George. See my paragraph from above:
    • Now, there are accredited hypnosis/hypnotherapy credentials out there; but they tend to be certificates and/or diplomas. There are a handful of accredited colleges and universities that offer for-credit (but usually not-for-credit) certificates and/or diplomas in "hypnosis" or "hypnotherapy." Usually, however, the accredited college or university offers just a course or two... often not-for-credit (though sometimes for credit); or sometimes accredited graduate psychology programs will add some sort of hypnotherapy certification or endorsement classification to masters or doctoral degrees.
    I would add that it might even be possible to do some kind of hypnosis/hypnotherapy minor in an accredited graduate degree in the US, but I've not found one. I'm unaware of an accredited doctoral program in hypnotherapy in the US... not even from a place like the regionally-accredited Institute of Transpersonal Psychology.

    The same cannot be said for the UK where, just to name one example, the accredited (in the way we tend to use that word around here) University College London offers what it calls "qualifications at Certificate, Diploma and MSc level:
    • • Clinical and Applied Hypnosis
      • Hypnosis Applied to Medicine
      • Hypnosis Applied to Dentistry
      • Hypnosis Applied to Research"
    Click here for more information about that. And there are others in the UK.

    But even in Australia, all I find -- at least easily -- that's "accredited" in the way that we tend to use that word around here is:
    • a "Certificate IV in Clinical Hypnotherapy" and a "Diploma of Clinical Hypnotherapy" from the Academy of Applied Hypnosis; and,
    • a "Postgraduate Diploma of Counselling" from Bond University that, as with even some US psychology programs, includes hypnosis among the techniques it covers.
    That said, I thought I remembered at least one other accredited Australian hypnosis/hypnotherapy credential. Does Macquarie offer something? As I recall, Dovelos always used to claim something from both Macquarie, and a place called "Brice-Wright School of Professional Hypnotherapy," the latter of which, given who's claiming a credential therefrom, I assume is bogus... or nearly so, no?

    What do you know, George, that I don't... about accredited hypnosis/hypnotherapy credentials, I mean (since all that you know which I don't, just generally, would fill several volumes!)?
  9. George Brown

    George Brown New Member

    Thanks Gregg. Perhaps one could surmise that there are no accredited doctoral programs in hypnotherapy because society does not beleive hypnotherapy should be taught at that level? When a program is put up for accreditation, the proponent must put up a solid, empirically researched argument that there is demand for graduates at that level. Your cursory search has demonstrated that perhaps hypnotherapy does not warrant doctoral level teaching, only at undergraduate and perhaps in a grad cert/ dip scenario. This does not, of course, stop an individual underating a thesis by research PhD in hypnotherapy; by the same token, a theis by research PhD in underwater basket weaving can be undertaken as well.

    I guess my main gripe is that it really irks me when esoteric programs are created, willy nilly by certain institutions without actually ensuring that there are adequate job outcomes. This is credentialism gone mad, fuelled by a slick marketing campaign.


  10. JamesK

    JamesK New Member

    Re: Re: Re: cheapest "doctorate" in Hypnotherapy -all unaccredited

    From an earlier thread

    Which may have been taught, but not awarded by Macquarie University, even though he originally claimed

  11. George Brown

    George Brown New Member

    Thanks James. Now what are you doing on a 37c degree Sunday in Adelaide, sitting on the computer? I have an excuse - a darn PhD to clean up. Are you studying for exams?


  12. JamesK

    JamesK New Member

    Exams finished three weeks ago.

    I just can't imagine a day going by without checking the forums (where possible, once every hour). :D
  13. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    Oh, man... I get it now. When you asked laferney "Why do you think this is the case?" you weren't asking him "Why do you think that's true?" as if challenging the assertion; you were saying, "You're right. So why do you think that's the case? Could it be that there are no accredited doctoral program in hypnotherapy because it's merely a technique, not an area worthy of building an entire doctoral program upon."

    [smacks own forehead] :rolleyes:

    It's funny. Had we been in person, I wouldn't have had the least bit of a problem understanding what you meant. Without the visible and audible cues of in-person communication, written communication can be misleading. And, actually, there was nothing misleading about what you wrote. It was just the way I read it. My bad.

    Has anyone noticed that his bio is now completely gone from Breyer State's web site?

    SEE: http://www.breyerstate.com/resume-john-dovelos.htm

    Now gets a "404 Error - Page Not Found." That was not true less than a month ago.

    And less than two weeks ago his photo and a link to the aforementioned non-working bio page still appeared on this faculty listing page... but no longer.

    Speaking of that faculty page... I wonder how many of those whose names and photos appear there even know about it.

    I guess I'm getting off-topic, though. Sorry.
  14. laferney

    laferney Member

    I would disagree that there is no hypnotherapy doctorate because "it's merely a technique, not an area worthy of building an entire doctoral program upon." The applications of hypnotherapy are tremendous- range from medical: pain control, (anesthesia )dental and medical surgeries, Childbirth as Lamaze, imagery in Cancer and other illnesses, Insomnia and sleep disorders, relaxation as in mind-body therapies,
    coping with Chronic illnesses as Arthritis etc to name a few. In psychotherapy and behavioral therapies as phobias, Anxiety disorders, somatic disorders. In habit control as smoking and weight control. In enhancing sports and academic performance.
    In sales. Sexual dysfunction. Forensics, the military etc. To be an effective practitioner you must know about these things in depth.
    Again Psychoneuroimmunology is an exciting area of study in which hypnosis and Imagery play a big role.
    This is why the D.C.H was created by the then known as American Institute of Hypnotherapy.(now APU) One look at their courses at:
    shows the indepth knowledge taught as a doctoral program. The D.C.H is designed to train effective, knowledgeable practitioners who can work with a myriad of problems -not the weekend hypnotherapist doing weight and smoking sessions.
    Why do we need a PhD in Hypnotherapy? To research the effectiveness of hypnotherapy on these numerous applications with well designed studies. Many of these successes are antedotal. Researchers who understand hypnotherapy are needed for this.
    So in summary I feel one can make the case for a APUs doctoral program and by scanning the net you can see several/many past graduates with hypnotherapy practices so it is used in employment.
    When DETC accredits doctoral study I can see how the CDH and Ph.D in Hypnotherapy at APU would fall in the range of accredited degrees by it's mode of study and course content.
  15. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

    I understand what you're saying, and I see your point... might even agree with it, since I know quite a bit about this subject and can easily see all the ways that it can be thought of is far more than a mere technique. No argument there.

    And if DETC starts approving doctorates and AMPAC then decides to get DETC-accredited, I will, personally, see that as a very good thing. At that point I can say that while there never used to be any accredited PhD's in hypnotherapy in the US, now there's at least one. For the moment, HMI, like it or not, remains the only accredited hypnotherapy credential in the US.

    In the meantime, you've not answered my earlier question: To precisely which "American International University external degree program" were you referring? Link, please.

    And do you agree that whatever so-called "degrees" that parapsychologydegrees.com is offering for from $295 to $595, as I itemized in my earlier post, are nothing but bogus diploma mill bullsh_t?
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Go to your mailbox. Open it. Stare inside. You're getting sleepy, sleepy, sleepy.....:rolleyes:

    Can it be studied with efficacy at a distance? Is it even an academic subject? Why locate in Hawaii? (If it is really there.)

    This thread is in the wrong forum, IMHO.
  17. laferney

    laferney Member

    In the meantime, you've not answered my earlier question: To precisely which "American International University external degree program" were you referring? Link, please.
    And do you agree that whatever so-called "degrees" that parapsychologydegrees.com is offering for from $295 to $595, as I itemized in my earlier post, are nothing but bogus diploma mill bullsh_t?

    To receive information on their "degree" programs you must request it click the University dregree link and it will say:
    To receive a catalog, please indicate the type of degree, major area of interest and include your name and postal address. Send to [email protected].
    They will then e-mail it to you.
    There were several unaccredited "American International Universities-one was a notorious degree mill. If you look in Bears Guide 15th Ed. the American Ass. for Parapsychology and and AIU are listed on page 188 and 189. While these are not linked to that degree mill I would tend to agree with your assessement that
    "so-called "degrees" that parapsychologydegrees.com is offering for from $295 to $595, as I itemized in my earlier post, are nothing but bogus diploma mill bullsh_t"
    But my point was if you are inclined to do an unaccredited hypnotherapy doctorate it is the cheapest - and just as usefull (or useless ) as a Degree from Canyon, Breyer, or Calamus and much cheaper.

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