Women outpacing Men in new College Degrees

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by sideman, Nov 9, 2021.

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  1. sideman

    sideman Active Member

  2. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    That shoots down the most popular narratives…
     
  3. AlK11

    AlK11 Active Member

    That can't be right. I've been told by the mainstream media that we live in a misogynistic society where women are treated poorly and can't accomplish anything great due to the patriarchal society.
     
  4. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    For anyone who hasn't been keeping up with the news, the conversation has not been about women not being able to complete a college degree. It's well-known that women enroll in college and complete degrees at higher rates. I don't know why that's being conflated with equal pay, sexual harassment, and glass ceiling discussions. College is not the workplace.

    The conversation on this issue has been focused on why more men are not going to college and whether men are getting left behind in the education sector. According to Pew, a lot of men just don't want to go to college or don't see the need to for their chosen careers. It would be nice to see further exploration for why some men don't want to go to college.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  5. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    The narratives that have been widely mentioned in labor/workforce development circles has been blaming a lot of this on (1) the opioid crisis arguably impacting men more than women, (2) slightly lower high school graduation rates of men versus women and the carryover to Higher Ed, (3) abundance of good paying jobs that do not require degrees and their demographic skewing towards men, and (4) although arguable, the notion of men supporting families as a priority over their education.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It's not a binary matter. Sexism in our society is a complex concept.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It seems reasonable that if (a) access to college is present for women and (b) a college education and degree can help some overcome employment and career barriers, women would use such experiences to promote their professional opportunities.
     
    sanantone likes this.
  8. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Active Member

    Also, there has been a lot more focus on de-stigmatizing going into a trade. While not universal, men are probably going to be more drawn to trade careers (like plumbing or being a mechanic) that don't require a degree than women being drawn to those same careers. If I'm a person (man or woman) who likes to tinker with things, why would I go to college when I can go to the local trade school and get close to six figures almost immediately?
     
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    It's the most common way for women to enter the middle class.

    It's true that men go into the trades far more often than women do. Women are not socialized to go into trades that are dirty and require physical labor, and some may even argue that women are not naturally drawn to that type of work.

    However, most trades have a median income that's far below six figures. It takes many years to get to the master level as a plumber or electrician. Many tradesmen make six figures from overtime. Heck, correctional officers with a base pay of $50k can often hit six figures with overtime. They also have a shorter lifespan like most blue collar workers.

    In the law enforcement field, I've noticed that men seek out the departments that offer the most overtime. I'm all for working smarter, not harder. You can earn a degree and get a federal agent position that will have a six figure base pay after a few years.
     
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  10. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    Federal agent positions are muuuuuuch harder to land, even with degrees. Fed LE positions also pay a form of straight OT where you work a minimum of 50 hrs per week but only get paid for 50 hrs (no time and a half, and even if you work 70, you still get paid for 50). So the grass is not always greener and it is much harder to even get to the other side of the fence.
     
  11. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    This is probably a personal interpretation, but I’m not sure I equate seeking out career opportunities with an abundance of overtime and additional compensation as a focus on working harder then smarter. It’s all about working hard AND smart… at least to me.
     
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I think it's great that women have been able to become more educated. More education is a betterment to all of society. We had a thread before discussing some issues men are having with the current college climate. Since we're still in the midst of this shift, no one thing can be pinpointed to conclusively. I do however believe that the true test of the whole matter will come when/if at some point we see a concerted effort to address the issues men are voicing, because how it's addressed will matter just as much or more than it being addressed at all.
     
  13. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    It depends on the agency. Some are on LEAP, some are on a different overtime system, and some don't have built-in overtime. Some agencies are so slow, people have to find work to make the 50 hours, so they're not expecting to work 50+ hours.

    It sounds smart until you cut 10 years off your life and can't even enjoy retirement in good health.
     
  14. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    Shrugs, still feel again that comes down to personal interpretations and lifestyle choices.
     
  15. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    Your original comment referred to agents making 100k within 5 years. While there are several types of fed leo positions, the 'agents' who get up to 100k in 5 years are Special Agents and Air Marshals who get the LEAP you mentioned. Other types of fed LE positions get AUO, which is extremely similar to LEAP, or regular old OT. Either way, the 'agent' jobs you mention fall under the description I provided in my earlier post. Your description of the multiple systems expands your included positions way beyond the feds who make 100k after 5 years, as you described. I should also add that those agents making 100k in 5 years are also working massive, complex federal cases that many people wouldn't even know how to start. So the idea of working smarter and not harder by going to the feds is misplaced in terms if the hours worked and the difficulties/complexities of thejob.
     
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    With locality pay in many places, GS-13 is just under to just over $100k before LEAP or AUO. You just need to be with an agency in which journeyman level is GS-13, which I believe is most agencies. It's the OIGs that may top out at GS-12.
     
  17. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    Yes, a 13 will hit 100k but the only positions that have gs 13 as full promotion potential are Special Agents. The rest are lower graded. OIG Special Agents typically go up to 13 (not 12). In any case, your original comment was that getting an agent job was working smarter not harder. My reply was that getting an agent job was (a) very difficult to do, (b) harder work than you were making it seem (c) more hrs than you were implying, (d) involved complex work that not everyone can do, and (e) not as lucrative as you make it seem when you take into account the way they account for OT hrs.

    I'm not saying it isn't a good job or well paying. I am saying your original characterization of the work in comparison to being a non-fed was over simplified, and the grass is not quite as green as you were making it seem.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  18. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I said that federal agents can hit $100k in five years, not all federal law enforcement. Of course, it's more competitive getting a criminal investigator position, and the standards are higher. There's an individual limit to working smarter, and not everyone has the mental capacity to do the bare minimum of passing the written test. Some people can't even pass the test to become a municipal police officer, so they go into corrections.

    Being a street cop in a mid-sized to large city isn't hard (or dangerous)? I remember hearing a discussion between two applicants about working at Texas DPS as a trooper or police officer at Austin. The state had (and I believe still does) a mandatory 50-hour work week with the overtime being paid at time and a half. So, the state had a lower base pay but higher guaranteed pay than Austin.

    I like math. If pay were the only thing I cared about, I would have chosen Austin. Austin had a much higher base pay, bigger pay increases, and no shortage of optional overtime. However, all the applicants saw was the mandatory overtime, which could be eliminated at any time, and thought that would lead to higher pay.
     
  19. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    I don't even know what you are talking about anymore. Your original post said "I'm all for working smarter, not harder. You can earn a degree and get a federal agent position that will have a six figure base pay after a few years."

    All I am saying is that it is not as simple or easy or cut and dried as you are making it seem, based on you saying to get a degree and get a fed agent position as an example of working smarter and not harder.
     

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