Why so few?

Discussion in 'IT and Computer-Related Degrees' started by Kizmet, May 30, 2017.

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  1. Rifleman

    Rifleman New Member

    No one is making this claim, I'm not convinced of this either. It's for several reasons, but especially due to the unique mixture of topics covered combined with the fact that students have likely never been exposed to this material before (there is no AP CS course that actually covers CS material, as an example).

    Absolutely not. For most engineers -- Calc II and Differential Equations will do the trick, althoug programs of course vary. Abstract, pure mathematics - lets give topology, coding theory, or automata theory a try.

    Says the social science credential hoarder with an opinion on everything. I'm sure a CC intro cs 101 course (i.e. Podunk CC offering a course titled CS 101 which should really be CIS 101 Intro to Programming) isn't hard. In fact, if that's the case -- that may be why the fail rate is so high by the time they get to a challenging course.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2017
  2. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Why are you resorting to personal attacks? It's not that serious. I post in fewer threads than most of the other regulars. An associates, bachelors, masters, and PhD are a natural progression, not hoarding. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read on this forum. If you're referring to my additional AS in biology and soon-to-be BSBA in CIS, then those are not social sciences. If it offends you so much that I have exposure to multiple fields because I love to learn about multiple fields, then I don't know what to tell you. That's kind of bizarre. Maybe you should take classes in anger management and manners.
     
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  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    In reality, I am the only one allowed to have an opinion on everything. I would ask you all to keep this in mind.:chairfall:
     
  4. Rifleman

    Rifleman New Member

    I'll await your AS Psychology (i.e. two additional psych courses) before taking those marching orders, thanks.

    Gettin kinda touchy...business management (with classes in Excel Spreadsheet Management) may very easily touch into some form of social science...but, perhaps it's not science at all - you may be right on that.
     
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  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    This was even dumber. Congratulations. Are you even trying to use logic?

    My business administration degree, not business management, requires more courses in CIS and accounting and finance than economics. Nice try.

    What are your credentials? I hope they didn't require logic.
     
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  6. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Who is your accreditor?
     
  7. Rifleman

    Rifleman New Member

    define: administration --> "the process or activity of running a business, organization, etc."

    define: management --> "the process of dealing with or controlling things or people"

    Please. give. me. a. break.

    You can be rest assured that my "credentials" required at least the amount of logic it takes when crapping out a "BSBACIS" - which is to say none. So you are correct, it required no logic. By "logic" do you just mean "that doesn't jive with my opinion" or are we talking Godel or what?
     
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  8. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    It's a BSBA that requires one course in principles of management. The flaw in your logic is that this somehow makes it a social science degree. If that's the case, then almost every healthcare degree is a social science because they actually cover behavioral science in much more depth than a business program.

    The other flaw in your logic, which led to a bad joke, is that having an AS in Environmental, Safety, and Security Technologies and an AS in Natural Science and Mathematics with a concentration in Biology will mean that I will use two more courses to get an AS in Psychology. It's not opinion; it's stupidity. This shows an inability to recognize patterns.
     
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  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I'm only mildly embarrassed to say that I don't have a really firm grasp of the distinctions between these disciplines. It doesn't help that people seem to get into these fields through some unorthodox doorways. I'm not sure that I'd want to be a programmer but I understand that the time is coming when many jobs will require some level of programming skill. On the other hand, I think I could become interested if the application caught my interest. I tend to be oriented towards manufacturing and I had to do a little machine shop stuff in school. That's CNC stuff right?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2017
  10. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Well, it's like grasping a greased pig so you needn't be at all embarrassed.

    One distinction in CompSci degrees is ABET accrediting. More techie than others, I think.

    Business/Liberal Arts schools may have fine non-ABET CompSci programs geared more towards business needs.

    IT/IS degrees will probably be broader than CompSci degrees but with less math. I don't know of any PhD programs in IT/IS but here may be some.

    If anyone with better knowledge wishes to kick around what I've written then I won't mind. We're here to learn, after all.
     
  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    When I was a computer science major years ago, many people in the IT and CS fields told me that ABET is not important for IT or computer science. Some of the best computer science programs in the country have elected not to have ABET accreditation, and it's probably because CS majors aren't looking to become licensed engineers. This is from Stanford:

    Considering CS?

    IT programs can and do earn ABET accreditation, but it's still not nearly as common as it is in engineering.

    There have only been a few times when I've seen that ABET accreditation has mattered in CS or IT. The Texas State Guard wants ABET accreditation for IT degrees in order to directly commission as an officer. When applying to sit for the patent bar, CS courses require additional review if they didn't come from an ABET-accredited program.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2017
  12. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Stanford doesn't need the additional status that ABET gives to lesser known schools. But that they dropped ABET for the EE program is surprising.

    One problem I see for any sort of accreditation is that it locks a school in to some set curriculum that limits innovation.
     
  13. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    How often do employers check for ABET accreditation? It's rarely listed in job ads for this field.
     
  14. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    Damn...my reply disappeared.

    In short, that's a good question that engineers-to-be should ask.

    Schools like Marist College should be considered for non-ABET CS but that not online.
     
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    The difference with engineers is that there is an engineering license that is difficult to get without ABET accreditation. People with computer science degrees don't apply for an engineering license nearly as often as people with engineering degrees.
     
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I looked at the requirements to become a professional engineer in Texas. It looks to be difficult for someone with a computer science degree to qualify for the license. In Texas, an engineering degree accredited under EAC/ABET is required. If you don't have that, then you need a masters degree in engineering from a school with EAC/ABET accreditation. Engineering technology from an ABET-accredited school will count, but more work experience will be required. An unaccredited degree in mathematics, physics, or engineering will also count but, once again, you need more work experience. Computer science is accredited under CAC/ABET, so it's not an automatic education qualifier to become an engineer in Texas. One would either need a masters degree in engineering or twice as much work experience (8 years instead of 4 years), which is the same thing someone with a physics or mathematics degree would need. I looked at all the ABET-accredited CS programs in Texas, and all of them are accredited by CAC as opposed to EAC.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2017
  17. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Calculus. The great fear thereof. When our middle school teachers stop screwing our kids up as far as math goes, you'll see more CS students.
     
  18. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Calculus is required for most STEM majors. Even a lot of biology programs require calculus.
     
  19. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    ..and what does that have to do with anything? There's shortages of folks entering STEM too.
     
  20. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    If you read the article, you would know. The article is basically asking why there are so few CS majors compared to other STEM majors.
     

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