Why do people think public school teachers don't make much money?

I know this has been mentioned before in this thread, but the assumption that teachers are "off" when school is out isn't 100% valid. Many teachers spend that time "off" doing school work, grading, or participating in curriculum planning or other activities.

Also, if anyone truly believes that teachers do not have to work nights or weekends is just fooling themselves. We have to hold numerous parent conferences, attend PTA meetings, sports events, extracurricular events, proms, field trips, etc. Granted that's not every night or every weekend, it does happen frequently.

-Matt

 

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the idea of public education. It's just unfortunate that there's so much regulation that it hinders progress and many parents aren't doing their part in preparing kids for school.

-Matt

 

I was referring to school vacations such as Christmas, summer, and spring vacations, not to mention state/national holidays, "staff development days" (when the parking lot of the school is mysteriously empty), sick days, etc. Four months off is probably a generous estimate.

As for parent-teacher meetings, my kid's school schedules those during the day (they cancel class that day), and I have never once seen a teacher at a parent council (our term for PTA) meeting or school function that was at night or on the weekends. The principal is always there, but never once in 5 years have I seen a teacher.

 

Wow, Bruce!

Things must be quite different up your way. Of course, when the individual states set policy, it's no surprise to see so many differences. Seems bizarre to have conferences during the day though, since that's when most parents are working. That's why we do them at night.

-Matt

 

Bruce, when I was a teacher we absolutely had to put in the time for all "staff development" days. I'm not saying all their workshops were useful, but we sure had to be there. They were sometimes held at a different central location rather than at the school where one would work.

But yes, one of the "perks" of choosing the profession of being a K-12 teacher is the vacations. Though most of us do some work (or continue our own education, work on Master's, etc.) during vacations, admittedly, there is some real vacation time there. I won't deny there were some perks to teaching. But they are not enough for me to me to want to actually go back into a high school classroom. The negatives out weigh the positives for me.

Now if you want really great vacations, be a college professor! (Not online though....no vacations at all in that, for me, anyway!)

 

I have 3 family members who are teachers, plus my husband is in school to be an online teacher. They all know that they make good money, have great benefits, great schedule, all holidays and summers off, and 2 of my cousins have had their student loans forgiven already. They always say they wish other teachers would stop complaining before the government decides to step in and "help" them and makes things worse.

 

My sister laughs when she reads things like this. She says she could remember her mandatory days off as a teacher by looking at the blackout dates on her Universal Studio Card. She much prefers the five weeks off to take whenever she wants, the paid holidays, and the generous sick leave she gets at the U.S. Postal Service. As a teacher she was unable to take a three week vacation in the winter to go snow skiing. At the USPS, no problem. The minute she clocks off she leaves her job. The guaranteed no-layoff clause in their national agreement is an added bonus. For a job that doesn't require a high school diploma.

I'm sure some teachers have it good and are happy with the position. I knew people that were happy working at the McDonald's I worked at as a kid. I still contend that teachers are underpaid for the responsibilities they have.

The high attrition rate is real not an opinion.

 

I agree and I would never stay where I am unhappy. Even though she was thought of highly by school administration and loved by her students my sister walked away rather than stay and complain.

And by looking at the high attrition rates in teaching she was not the only one.

 

For her its quality over quantity. The ability to take cruises in September when the rates are low and the cruise ships are not full to capacity(children are in school!) far outweigh having a lot of time off during peak travel times. She also likes the idea of not worrying about what she does on her vacation and getting fired for behavior that is considered legal. Much like her brother she is a free spirit that doesn't like being told when to take vacation and how to act when on it!

BTW: she corrected me and the amount of time off she gets. She is only been there a few years so she gets four weeks not five. Five comes at 15 years service and from what I understand military service counts.

 

I would trade a three-week vacation in the winter for the entire summer off with pay, EVERY SINGLE TIME!!

 

Since she was on a 10 month contract technically it is not with pay.

Plenty of openings available!

 

Come on down

Teacher Salaries a Victim of Budget Cuts

In Broward County, an exodus of experienced teachers and salary schedule changes have actually caused the average teacher pay to fall by 16 percent in the last four years to $42,181 the largest drop in any county

In the last four years, the average pay of a Florida teacher has decreased $1,199, from $46,922 in the 2007-2008 school year to $45,723 in the 2010-2011 school year, a decline of about 2.5 percent

As a single parent, Dos Santos said surviving on a teacher's salary in South Florida is almost impossible. "You certainly can't support a family or even yourself on just one teacher's salary," she said.

As a result, Dos Santos has kept a second job as a waitress throughout most of her 15-year teaching career

 

I'd say more than half of the teachers I work with have second jobs. I suppose I have three if I count UoP and the Community College separately. Many of my colleagues are bartenders on the side, which I think is rather humorous, but they say they make great money doing it. The other thing I'd add is, like what you mentioned above, depending on where you live, a teaching salary isn't enough to live on. We have teachers in our school who have kids getting free lunch and medicaid because their incomes are so low. I'm not so sure that's limited to just teaching though. My wife and I both have decent jobs, and side jobs too, and with two kids it's actually challenging to stay afloat at times.

-Matt

 

Dos Santos is making $48,000 + ~$20,000 in benefits = ~$68,000 for 8.25 months of work.

According to Broward County a 15 year veteran teacher with bachelor's degree makes $43,000 or $29.55 per hour not including benefits. They get more for higher or specialized degrees. Benefits are worth another ~$13 per hour.
Broward County Instructional Staffing Department Teacher Salaries

According to the official school calendar teachers get 10 weeks off in the summer, 2 weeks for Christmas, 1 week for Thanksgiving, 1 week for spring break, and 6 other holidays. A total of 15 weeks off per year. I did not include the 2 weeks of employee planning days throughout the year when school is closed as I don't know if teachers work some or all of those days. I also did not include the 4 days per year sick leave which accumulates every year and they can cash in when they retire. Sick days don't accumulate in the private sector nor can you sell them back to your company.
Broward County Official Calendar

Let's recap. A 15 year experienced teacher makes ~$43 per hour salary+benefits and gets 16 weeks off per year for vacation/holidays

I'm sure salaries have been flat in this bad economy. I haven't gotten a raise in 5 years (I'm in private sector). With the turnover (moved, quit, retired) of the senior and higher paid workers in the profession I would expect the average to come down.

The state is currently contributing ~27% of an employee's wages to that employee's eventual retirement. Now they are telling the employees that the state will pay 24% and they have to pay 3% themselves since it's THEIR retirement. It's still 20+ times better then anyone in the private sector is getting. I have to pay for 100% of my own retirement.


Interesting article. See the actuaries link
Florida Teachers Get Nine Times Typical Pension Contribution from Employer, Are Suing

 

“Morale is at an all-time low,” said Pat Santeramo, the president of the Broward Teacher’s Union. “We’ve seen people exiting the ranks of teachers in Broward County whether it’s at the top or bottom. They have basically given up.”
Salary woes have led many in the profession to get second jobs, leave teaching, retire, or move to a state in which teachers are paid more (thought salary was not an issue with high turnover..). “We are professionals, but we are held to high standards that our pay does not match,” said Lisa Dos Santos."

So assuming the above are lying and teachers are making wonderful money, why the big problem with attrition?

And why are those that think it is so good yet not teachers themselves?

 

I understand. You cannot pay a mortgage with fringe benefits and you do not get the opportunity for massive overtime like our Broward Sheriff's Office gives.

It is sad to have teachers come to our mortgage broker affiliate and not be able to qualify on a decent home. There are programs available to help teachers (wonder why!) but the monthly maximum allowable debt obligation is usually too much for what home the client wants. Days off in the heat of the summer and during peak travel time are nice. But try buying a home with it:laugh:

 

Don't feel bad. As some of the old timers at DI know I am self employed with my own business. I pay 100% everything for myself. If I want a raise I have to make it myself. I never got a penny in tuition reimbursement. I am not complaining. I love living the American dream.
I would like to see my children and the children of this country get the best possible educational opportunities. Money talks in this country and paying teachers the pathetic salary they get is not the best way to get quality educators.

 

Their total compensation is pretty good. You can't dispute the facts. They are choosing to have more benefits in their total compensation instead of more salary. They are choosing a job with 4 months of vacation/holidays per year. They are choosing not to have a job where they work 3 more months a year and earn more. Yes some are choosing to go elsewhere for more money but you have that in every profession. The bottom line is they are choosing the job and taxpayers don't have anymore to give.

They make the same as Network Administrators, Audiologists and Chiropractors. They make MORE than Registered Nurses, Landscape Architects, Insurance Underwriters, Public Relations Manager, Surveyors , Dietitians and Nutritionists, Athletic Trainers according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.


I personally think the taxpayer money hasn't been used to teach for many years now. It goes to keep people employed and babysit kids. Why do we need these huge schools? Marble floors? Fancy decorations? The huge stadiums? The indoor swimming pools? Why so many administrators and other non-teaching staff? My district feeds kids breakfast, lunch and dinner. When I went to school we paid for lunch ourselves or packed a lunch. Our parents were responsible for breakfast and dinner. My district has multiple hospital emergency rooms (beds, electronics, etc) in every school. They also have full-time RN's in every school. When I went to school we had one RN who covered multiple schools and if we felt bad we had to lay on a couch until our parents came to get us. If it was real bad they called 911.

Schools should teach. Period. Get rid of the non-teachers who outnumber the teachers and then pay teachers more. Get rid of the extravagant crap that has nothing to do with teaching and just stick to the basics.

Ok that was a little rant :laugh:

 

If you have a passion for teaching children you really don't have much of a choice.

A very valid rant in my opinion. We agree 100% on this. The waste I see in the Broward County School System is enough to make me want to scream.

 

We don't have contract teachers, they're all full-time, unionized city/town employees who receive a full-time paycheck year-round.

No thanks, I have a very low tolerance for children who aren't my own.