What do I believe in?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by KariS, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. KariS

    KariS New Member

    What do I believe in?

    As we get closer to this election, it seems everyone has their own opinions, and thinks anyone who does not agree with them is wrong. That means I must be wrong, for I do not agree with everybody.

    The conventional wisdom is that as we age we become more conservative, I guess that depends on what you call conservative. I do not, have not, and never will equate conservatism with the "religious" right wing view; that is not conservatism any more than communism is liberal. I believe Goldwater stated it best: "When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye." And again with: "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?"

    I find that I am becoming more "liberal" as I believe in individual rights. I also believe that anyone can make something of themselves.

    On one touchstone issue again I agree with Goldwater as I view abortion as a matter of personal choice, not something for government to control. And I ask any "pro-life" advocates, how many unwanted children they have adopted or are supporting. If the answer is none, I know that they are hypocrites, who only want to control others and make them do what "they" think is "right."

    I long for the day of a strong conservative like Goldwater, and McCain is not him.

    Some more Goldwater quotes:

    "My faith in the future rests squarely on the belief that man, if he doesn't first destroy himself, will find new answers in the universe, new technologies, new disciplines, which will contribute to a vastly different and better world in the twenty-first century. "

    "To my mind the single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom."

    "Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since at least the time of Julius Caesar." He also said, "You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
  2. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Well, I believe abortion is wrong and my wife and I are prepping for an adoption and we are going through the foster system within our state, so I hope that meets your approval.

    Secondly I believe the right to bear arms is a 2nd amendment guarantee and not for the purpose of hunting but in the spirit by which the document was written considering the events of the day.

    I also believe that government usually makes things worse, not better with the rare exception of the military. Thus I am for smaller government, not exactly a Republican or Democrat stance.

    I believe in the right to religious freedom which means expressing your faith free of any government intervention, yes even in school if need be. You have the right to freedom or religion, not the right to not be offended by someone exercising that right.

    I would like to see everyone have access to healthcare. This may be counter to my smaller government beliefs but how about we cut some of these Federal earmarks and instead make sure everyone can purchase affordable health insurance.

    I believe that public schools are failing and I would like to see a voucher program where a kid in the “hood” can attend a school in the more prosperous areas and have every right the wealthier kids would have. And if we can toss in private schools to open enrollment, even better. It would be a better utilization of our tax dollars.

    I believe college should cost less. I don’t care how it happens but the expense of college is retarded. Even loan forgiveness programs would be great for cops, firefighters, teachers and public servants.

    I also believe that we need alternative energy sources. But until that time we need to drill, drill and drill some more. I think we need to dump a ton of resources in to R&D for the vehicle companies, not the energy companies to discover this new source of energy. Personally I like the idea of hydrogen.

    I also believe global warming is a crock. First it was global cooling concerns, then the rainforest now global warming is trendy. I think the rainforest is a legitimate concern but the other two? Puleez.

    I think our national education recognition programs need to be reformed. There should be more unification in accreditation and recognition of degree programs and schools.

    I think the war in Iraq is vital to national security and we need to finish the job. I don’t care why the war was started, I only know we need to finish the job.

    I think we need to escalate action in Afghanistan and we need to stop allowing the Taliban to hide in Pakistan only to do raids and continue to undermine our efforts in Afghanistan. If Pakistan cannot control their regions, then they do not have the right to protect those who attack us.

    That’s about it for now.
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I'm going to try to make this brief but I'm not always good at that. I'm going to use friendorfoe's post as a template.

    I am pro-life. In my neighborhood, especially with women, this is not a majority view so I don't talk about it much.

    I do not presently own a gun but I suspect that I will by Christmas as I'll be going through a training program specifically designed to prepare you for that outcome. I'm going to buy a big honking rifle and use it to shoot at paper targets. If you've never done it then I recommend that you try it. Not only is it fun but the people you meet at the gun club are the word.

    The "religion" thing is big with me. What I mean is that the term "religion" indicates an organiztion. An institution. You're either on the bus or you're off the bus. By my experience, people of all religious beliefs have more stuff in common than they do in conflict yet they seem to engage endlessly on the small stuff. I think that in the end it's more about the egos of the leaders than it is the real differences of faith. This whole thing about "you got to believe what I believe or you less than human so it's ok I kill you," thing is getting pretty old , isn't it? The history on this is overwhelming, isn't it? I mean, I just ran out of fingers rying to count the religious wars. Wake up my babies, God don't want you to kill nobody. I'm starting my own religion. Stay tuned to youtube for updates.

    Everyone gets to be healthy. To me this is no different than saying that everyone gets to be protected by law. "Officer, Officer, I'm being robbed!"
    OK Miss, if you can show me your Police Protection Card then I'll be happy to save you from this creepy human." Let's get serious. The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Healthcare is the right to life.

    Don't get me started on schools. Schools suck. The first thing I'd do is bust every teachers union in the country. Then I'd hire about a zillion teachers who really wanted to teach. I'd also round up all the disfunctional parents and tell them that it's not our job to make up for your deficits. Oh baby I'm on a roll now.

    I believe that any kid who can get into college should be able to go to college. If it's just about the money then we need to figure out how to put the money in the right places in order to make that happen. When you look at the world and the way things are developing, having an increasing number of undereducated citizens is just not the way to go.

    Alternative energy. I'm one of those weird people who believes that there is some sort of colusion between the auto industry and the oil industry to continue to produce cars that guzzle. I believe (I know that I'm painting myself as an _____ as I write this) that the technology already exists to double the mileage of every vehicle. Hydrogen? Maybe that's it but I just can't believe that it's as difficult as Detroit is making it seem.

    I'm willing to believe that there is a global warming trend. The question is, is this trend caused by humans? I don't believe that there's any way to produce conclusive data. Perhaps humans are contributing to a warming trend that would have occurred anyway. It would seem to make sense to reduce greenhouse emissions but I don't know that we need to panic.

    Accreditation of higher education is a big part of our discussions. I think it would be a good thing if there could be some resolution to the RA/NA issue (I think that, in general, they're so close that they're indistinguishable) I don't think that there will ever be a single standard as that would require the government to set up a whole new reallyreally big agency for that purpose. I don't think that will happen (even if it should).

    I think that the war in Iraq is vital to our national security because our invasion and all the subsequent crap made it vital to our national security. I do care why the war was started because if you know the real answer to that question it will help you in your efforts to get the hell out of there.

    Afganistan: see above.

    I believe that the next 50 years (that's my lifetime babies!) will see a significant turning point in world affairs. I believe that America needs to wake up.
  4. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Sicne I find irritating things within both the Democratic and Republican parties, I tend to be extremely apolitical on Degreeinfo. However, your stand intrigues me, since the label "hypocrite" tends to be used by those of both liberal and conservative persuasions a weapon to squelch dialogue, rather than encourage it.

    Since you believe that government should not be in the business of controlling peoples' personal choices (e.g. abortion), do you also believe that government should also not be in the business of funding these same personal choices? Such a view would seem to me to be consistent.

    Regarding those who are "pro-life": Is adoption the only action that a "pro-life" person could take to avoid being a "hypocrite"? How about a "pro-life" person who donates significant volunteer work and/or money to a church or other organization that provides food, shelter and social services for these children (I personally despise the term "unwanted child"). Would this be considered "supporting"? While I am certainly not a disciple of Pat Robertson or other televangelists, I also know that a significant number of organizations involved in adoption services are faith-based and that a high percentage of the population who adopt children would be classified by most as religious conservatives (even if they are not part of the political "religious right" movement).

    My two youngest children are adopted and I am grateful that these wonderful and bright individuals who have blessed our lives were not aborted because they were an inconvenience or were unplanned. My wife and I did not adopt because were were trying not to be hypocrites--it was a decision that we discussed before we were married and which took years of preparation, both for ourselves and our biological children.

    Do you believe that people who are "pro-choice" have less of an obligation to adopt or support children in need than people who are "pro-life"? Would not the person who gauges others' compassion and caring for children by whether or not they have adopted children (while he or she has also not adopted any children) be no less a hypocrite?

    If we had less name calling and more adoptions (by both liberals and conservatives), the world would be a much nicer place :)


  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    "I would consider that to be an axiom."
    Mr. Spock
  6. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    Right on Tony. I became a little terse at that whole "hypocrite" and "unwanted children" etc. Basically a stance that places the responsibility for orphans and kids whose parents have bailed squarely on the pro-life crowd. A cowardly pass of the buck if you ask me.

    BTW... fostering kids can be painful and not for everyone. You get a kid in the middle of the night or day, who has just come from a horrific series of events in being ripped from their parents and given to a stranger at the very least. They are handed over to a strange house with strangers in it and told "don't worry everything will be okay" when in fact it isn't okay. It's freakin' far from okay. After a while he or she starts to relax and get into a routine. Meals are regular, the bed is clean, there are toys and the strangers in the strange house become family. Then mommy decides to quit crack and clean up or daddy decides that selling drugs is a no-no and they come back for their kid. Once again the kid is uprooted and sent back to his or her parents for a 2nd, 3rd, or who knows how many times. As for those who develop bonds with the kid you want to talk about pain... Remember some of these foster arraignments last for years.

    Lastly I find abortion to be a plague upon minorities and the poor offered up guised as a solution. I know lots of women who have had abortions. I don't know any who have not concluded at some point after the fact that it was a bad idea.
  7. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Foster parenting is a very difficult situation. Illinois law requires all adoptive parents (who adopt through the state) to attend foster/adoptive training, which consists of about 90% training about foster care and 10% about adoptive care. Our children were with us for over a year as foster children (the legal process for adoption took that long). I know other foster parents who have gone through that heartbraking process of seeing the children returned to their drug addicted parents who were able to "hold it together" long enough to get their children back. A few were able to keep it together--many were not.

    While I admire those who adopt, I am in even greater awe of those who foster.
  8. Gin Ichimaru

    Gin Ichimaru New Member

    Goldwater was so far to the right that he was "left". In the same way that Pat Bucannon is.

    Incidently, his running mate, some guy by the name of Miller is the father of liberal talk show host Stephanie Miller. She often quotes Goldwater.

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