Victims of Diploma Mills?

Just out of curiosty...has anyone here been a victim or know of some one who has been a victim of a Diploma Mill or a less than unaccredited university? What was your expereince like?

 

I am very skeptical about the concept of "victims" of degree mills. It seems reasonable to figure that any moderately intelligent person understands what is the basic requirement to earn a degree. I can't imagine anyone with a normal range IQ that could genuinely and sincerely believe that, after reviewing the requirement for a degree from a degree mill, it was even remotely be legitimate. I do know that people are capable of extremes when it comes to rationalizing what they are doing. But rationalization is no the same as victimization. Degree mill "victims" are easy way out practitioners. They know, somewhere in their psyche, that what they are doing is bogus, but they are willing to take the risk.

 

There are probably varying degrees of victim and co-conspirator in each person that has fallen prey to a degree mill. The ratio between victim and co-conspirator can be an interesting quantity to contemplate but is probably harder to know than the physics inside a black hole.

Here's a website documenting one such victim.
http://follies.werewolves.org/PhDFraud/

 

Re: Re: Victims of Diploma Mills?

I agree with this statement for the most part, but I do believe that some degree mills are not as obvious as others. Not all of them offer to back date transcripts or let you select your grades. There are a few that obviously go to great effort to look good, with an accreditor that sounds very close to a real accreditor, and they go to great detail in describing why their offerings are real. I don't believe they can fool many, but to the inexperienced person not familiar with mills, you might get tricked by the misquotes and nearly accurate statements. Horses have been painted, cars filled with 50 weight oil, rotten wood painted over-houses, boats patched up just enough. We've all been tricked or fooled by someone at some time, some place. The knives that never need sharpening, the $19.95 something or other on tv that will change your life, usually does, takes $19.95 from your bank account. When you need or want something really badly, you'll listen to garbage, and sometimes fall into the pit.

 

Re: Re: Re: Victims of Diploma Mills?

Sounds like K-W to me.

 

There is a regular contributor here (he can choose to identify himself if he wants) that received his undergrad degree from a less-than-wonderful school, and managed to gain entrance to RA programs for his Master's and Doctorate. Even then, he realized the bad degree was a black mark on his resume, so he went back an earned a RA undergrad degree after he completed his 2 graduate programs.


Bruce

 

Re: Re: Victims of Diploma Mills?

Why in the world would someone who was successful at the higher level go back? If a kid is smart enough to skip grades in school when he graduates high school should he go back and take the third grade again because he was smart enough to skip it. If that is what someone wants to do then what ever boats your float, but I would not encourage it. You who are RA or no way can pat him on the back, but I say he wasted his time and money.

 

Re: Re: Re: Victims of Diploma Mills?

Because he realized that having the less-than-wonderful undergrad degree on his resume was like having a delicious fudge sundae, only to find a steaming pile of s*** underneath the whipped cream and fudge sauce.

Every adjunct position that I've applied for required that you submit your entire academic history, not just your highest degree. A bad school on your CV could taint everything else.


Bruce

 

Now this would be one where I would take my chances!

If you can complete a masters, and a Phd at a respectable school then most people would overlook a less than desireable undergraduate I would think. Now if it were a degree mill like Hamilton that everyone is talking about that may be a different story. If the degree is state approved, or better yet DETC then I would not think it would be a problem.

 

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In this case he would not be submitting his entire academic history, but would be deliberately leaving out the " Less than Wonderful" degree. Getting another degree doesn't mean the first doesn't exist, just that it is being hidden. Since the school hasn't been mentioned the bad part may only be your view, and not necessarily mine or others. I don't accept the idea that state approved schools are bad.

 

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The standard within the USA is RA. Unaccredited schools are generally sub-standard. Some are more substandard than others. This can be bad sometimes. Other times it might not be bad.

 

Re: Re: Victims of Diploma Mills?

I am kind of amazed he could get in an RA Masters program.

I don't think there are too many "victims" from Diploma Mills. If you get a "degree" for no real work... that can only lead to no good.

Diploma Mills with fake accreditation are dangerous. They can dupe the unknowing with their hidden marketing. They advertise just enough course work for some people to be fooled.

I do think however, all you have to do is some research and they can be figured out hence be avoided.

 

Re: Re: Re: Victims of Diploma Mills?

In My research, many diploma mills have used internet websites such as search4colleges.com, onlinedegress.com for example to advertise their respective schools. to the novice (such as my friend and I were initially) and to the not-so-computer-internet savy, the schools appear respectible due to this marketing technique, and then draw in unsuspecting individuals. Plus, if you put in "life experience credit" in any search engine, the first thing that comes up on the list are diploma mills, and KWU ;-). That is why I use the term "victims" because ther are truly individuals out there that really "believe what they see". Those who knowingly use a degree from a mill or less-than-unaccredited university are truly adding to the corruption of themselves and society.

As far as the RA degree, it is true - many colleges and universities really look at all aspects of you education when applying for any type of teaching position, undergrad and graduate.

 

I wonder if these "schools" sell their sucker lists, as do telemarketers.

 

Bruce: I'd call what that contributor did integrity, and I am hardly "RA or no way," as somebody put it.

 

Janko:

It really depends on the school, and degree. If the school was CCU, PWU, KW, or a state approved school that is legal, and requires academic work to complete a degree, but that is substandard to a traditional degree then I think he wasted his time and money. If the degree was from Saint Regis or Hamilton where no work was required, and a degree was given from just a resume then I would call it integrity.

I will not argue that the state approved schools above have the utility or the standards of traditional or RA schools, but I do think that the state approved degrees are a valid option for some people. John Doe should not be shamed into returning to middle school after graduating high school.

hey whata ya say
hey whata ya say
RA is the only way
RA is the only waaay!!!

Wooo Yeepee!
Gooooo Regional!

 

RA is not the only way. There are other choices. The point is that there's a very standard definition for what a Bachelor's degree and a masters degree mean. If the degree requires close to that same amount of work then it is valid. For example, few people have claimed that CCU is invalid. It comes close to that standard. On the other hand K-W requires 5-7 classes and a term paper. That is far from the standard and claiming a degree from K-W is misleading and is illegal in a number of states.

 

Valid options for who? Those who seek to fool their employers or potential employers into thinking they earned a legitimate degree?

Like it or not, regional accreditation (RA) is the standard in the United States. I earned my undergrad degree from a quite generic liberal arts institution, Curry College, but since it was RA, I was eligible to apply to and was accepted at every graduate program to which I applied (Boston University, UMass-Lowell, Northeastern University, Suffolk University, Anna Maria College, and Western New England College). I ended up at UMass-Lowell. According to the various entrance standards, I would have been rejected at every single graduate school if I had an unaccredited undergrad degree.


Bruce

 

For many! I would not seek to fool anyone. I feel I earned a legitimate degree. The institution I earned it from may be substandard compared to a traditional degree program, but I feel I earned a legitamate degree.

One good thing about some of the programs which you seem to scorn is that you do not have to take all the fluff courses. I had enough of those in my AS (RA) program. While many schools are run by money grubbing crooks it doesn't change the demand for non traditional degree programs. People want to work on a degree, and study subjects that relate to their vocation and receive credit for experience in their vocation.

Not everyone is interested in going to graduate school, or teaching. For these, this is a viable option.

I do not personally need a degree because I am self employed, and have been since 94. I do not see this changing any time soon God willing.

Where we disagree is over accreditation. You think it is absolutely everything, and I think it is a good thing. This is something that in the real world is debatable, and boils down to personal opinion. I probably could have earned a degree from Excelsior, or one of the others in about the same amount of time. At the time I did not know about these schools, but given that information I may have went the same route.

Though Georgia Tech and KW are 180 degrees out of phase with each other I do not see that Excelsior and KW are 180 degrees out of phase. If you can take nothing but test and earn a degree without attending a class whether online or not that is not a great endeaver. When a kid can earn an associates degree before he graduates high school by passing exams how can you find that so acceptable, and disdain an unaccredited degree.

The same people who stand on high moral ground here, and so arrogantly step on others are the ones who are cheerleaders for the big 3. I am not knocking the big 3, but I do not see the phase shift here. I think the concept of the big 3 is great. The people who encourage portfolio assessment, and every kind of testing to obtain credit at these schools are the biggest stone throwers at the unaccredited schools. Do you guys encourage a graduate from Excelsior, or COSC to point out on their resume that these are assessment colleges? No, you encourage them to point out the accreditation of the school.

I have been wrong on some things since I started posting here, and I have had people change my mind. I may very well pursue one of the big 3 myself, but my point here is some of you could have an open mind too. Is that not what they teach at these liberal art schools?

 

You make a point in that the emphasis here is on earning a degree expeditiously.

But there are schools other than colleges that award diplomas for specific studies. Vocational schools, if they are still so called.

And colleges offer certificate studies in concentrations ranging from accounting to networking to English Lit. TESC and Athabasca are two examples of colleges offering certificates.

What does not exist, to my knowledge, is schools offering engineering or science degrees minus the "fluff." And to sit for a CPA exam may require a traditional degree. Do you think it should be otherwise or do you have something else in mind?