Discussion in 'Military-related education topics' started by Shawn Ambrose, Aug 5, 2014.
Why Veterans Will Soon Save Thousands on College - 1
Is this actually possible, I mean from a legal perspective? Does this not infringe upon States' rights? I mean as a Veteran I am all for this but aren't the State Universities creatures of the States?
I would like to see this happen for our vets. There is a real struggle to "catch-up" with those in the job market who went to college first. Too often the military experience does not transfer very easily to the civilian world.
While that may be - all of the state U's get a great deal of Fed money (Pell Grants, institution grants, , GI bill money, Title IV, etc.) If you want the Fed's $$, you need to play by the rules....
As a vet, I love this. As a faculty member at a private school, not so much. As I was telling my dean, I couldn't tell a vet to do our online programs when they can go to Clovis Community College for $90/credit hour - then transfer to Western New Mexico University for $200/credit hour.
I realize the idea here is to mimic the original GI Bill as it was executed post WWII however there are major differences between now and then not the least of which is the disproportionate rise in the costs of attending college. What would make more sense is enabling a more robust model of MOOCs or some similar framework for high throughput-low cost education delivery.
Don't get me wrong this is awesome for vets but seems a bit heavy handed and pushes even more "requirements" onto State schools some of which already have serious budgetary issues.
The law of unintended consequences
If this passes muster, then the law of unintended consequences will invariably follow.
Why not just socialize everything and allow the federal government to provide for us from cradle to grave? The government has the authority to take from those who have wealth and to redistribute their wealth to me. I want what the rich have and only the government has the legal authority to take the wealth of the rich from them and then give it to me. If I forcibly take their wealth, then it's called robbery, which is illegal, but if the government takes their wealth, it's a legal tax. I do not have the ability to take care of myself, so I want the government to take care of me by giving me the wealth of the rich. How about you? Isn't that what the framers of the Constitution intended when they broke away from the King of England?
I understand the concern of being mandated to lower costs for veterans and the unintended consequences that will follow, but honestly why would a college/university not allow vets in-state tuition rates? I never understood that.
The idea is that state institutions are primarily a service for those who are actually in that state. There are special lower rates for those who live there because they pay taxes there.
I understand why, but from a marketing standpoint it seems more logical to allow the active military and vets to enjoy an in-state rate knowing that they bring TA and GI bill funding with them. Not to mention they would get the "military friendly" stamp on their name. I have found a lot of schools who already pursue this model with a lot of success. Vets talk on their own networks and the word spreads quickly. One of the reasons Liberty is so popular with the military community is that they drop most of their prices down to $250 per semester hour. That is cheaper than the in state rate on every program.
This is outstanding news. As a veteran, I can truly appreciate it. My family sure will also!
It is impossible for the federal government to order the states to charge in-state tuition to vets unless threats are used to coerce the states into doing so, such as refusing federal student loans or grants in states that refuse to cede certain states' rights to the federal government. For example, Arizona refused to raise the legal drinking age to 21, so the federal government withheld all highway monies. After a few years, the interstate that passed through Arizona was filled with giant potholes and it became dangerous to navigate. Eventually, Arizona ceded states' rights to the federal government -- for money to fix the interstate. The concept of offering discounted tuition to vets is good, but the over reliance on the federal government to implement national standards is causing the federal government to dwarf the states. It was the other way around 200 years ago. For better or for worse.
I don't see the point to this. As an Active Duty guy, I get in-state tuition everywhere I am stationed. I get in-state tuition in my state of residence if I go back there post military or my current state (and change my residency) if I stay at the current location post-military. If I don't currently live in a state or am the resident of it, it is a nicety that schools in the other 48 states give me a tuition break down to the in-state rate. I don't think that the Federal government should mandate that the states comply with this.
Hmm, my residency is still the state I lived in when I enlisted 20 years ago despite my multiple assignments and long periods spent overseas. I am curious who "many" is since everybody I know has a home of record and is a resident of somewhere.
Yes, for Active Duty what you state is correct but the larger population at play here are the Veterans.
Veterans have the choice of going back to their home of record and getting in-state rates. They can also stay in the state they are stationed at for their final assignment since they have realistically been there long enough to establish residency and qualify for in-state tuition. Do they really need 48 other options?
If you serve the country in the Armed Forces honorably, you are also serving every state as part of the process, at least indirectly, and I think that in-state tuition is a reasonable way to recognize that service.
Most of the vets I know left their home of record state for a better opportunity (at least I did). And when most of them got out their choice was go back to the state they left or stay in a state they did not like (Navy bases are not usually in the best places). Sacrificing your personal freedom to serve this country can never be repaid back, but giving them a small break on tuition and allowing them to go anywhere in this country is a great thing.
Now, that said, I do not agree that the government should mandate this. Instead I would think that schools would want to attract vets. You know the vets will work hard, they will be successful, and they have the funds to pay (usually 36 months of GI bill with a housing allowance and book stipend attached to it). Seems like a win-win in my book.
Master Chief Petty Officer, USN (RET)
When I left the Navy, in-state tuition wasn't really enough to lure me into full-time college study.
I was dealing with the MGIB. The thousand bucks per month wasn't really enough to pay for my tuition, books and provide a place to live, so I had to go to work and do the school thing part-time and online.
A number of schools are charging the same rate for online programs (higher than in-state rates) regardless of your residency. So, unless that is now going to completely illegal, I don't see this changing very much.
Still, I came home to Pennsylvania and was more than ready to leave the state. I suppose knowing that I could get in-state rates in NJ or NY might have helped push me in that direction.
I love the idea.
Yes. First off your assuming someones last duty station is CONUS (Continental US); what if their last duty station was South Korea?
Secondly, its better use of taxpayer dollars. Most veterans are attending school on the post 9/11 GI bill these days. Which does cap compensation at the highest in state tuition rate, but out of state costs at Universities that recruit a heavy veteran presence can often easily fall under that threshold and get to make more money by admitting veterans. They also have a separate incentive, in order to receive federal funding for grant students at least 10% of their students must be paying their own way, except for veterans who they can count as paying their own way since the money comes from the department of veterans affairs and not department of education backed student loans.
Finally, Veteran unemployment still exceeds the national average. Often a persons last duty station is not instantly conducive to the skills a veteran may have. Allowing them one last move towards gainful employment and college education seems like a small price to pay.
Vets shouldn't have to pay for college in my opinion.
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