Update re: NAB of Dominica and IUGS

After several attempts (email) to obtain feedback directly from NAB of Dominica pertaining to their and equivalence status and recognition in the US, I have not received ANY response. Furthermore, due to the mutual recognition accreditation status with the University of the West Indies, I attempted to obtain information regarding NAB's equivalence and recognition status from several departments at UWI but also have not received any response!

In addition, I had a lengthy discussion with another US Academic Evaluation Service and after investigating the question of NAB's equivalence and recognition status, they opined that it not an equivalent entity to US RA, and neither is IUGS!

 

Addendum to above post:

Based on the currently known facts pertaining to NAB and IUGS's recognition status and level of equivalence to RA accredited doctoral programs in the US, it is my opinion that if one is seeking a doctoral degree in a behavioral profession such as Psychology, and their US state licensing board has no issue in using this degree for title ONLY, then they may wish to obtain the doctorate. However, the odds of using this doctorate for obtaining state licensing as a Psychologist in the US appears to be virtually nonexistent due to the very stringent requirements and criteria required for licensing.

HOWEVER, the caveat is that colleagues with RA accredited behavioral doctoral degrees may very well perceive the degree as being highly suspect, if not "millish", a response level I have already received from a number of colleagues and laypersons I have discussed this matter with.

 

Steve, so far all you have done is criticize and attack and have done nothing to clarify or counter the information provided with substantive facts! In short, you are an armchair spectator with absolutely no credibility in regard to the issue at hand.I realize that you have a conflict of interest because you are attempting to apply for NAB accreditation and claimed a billion times that you are not interested in promoting your "program" for US students but gearing it towards an international population and I wished you luck in your endeavor.

However, unless you contact US Academic Evaluation Services and present information that counters anything I have reported, then you are merely engaging in flaming and undermining antics and your credibility is highly questionable. So enough with your hyper-defensiveness and provide us with facts that contradict anything that has been stated.

 

Jan, you are starting to seem obsessed with IUGS, starting thread after thread about it. I don't think that it's interesting enough to justify this much attention.

As for me, I don't find it very credible and I'm still unmoved by its NAB accreditation. Particularly at the doctoral level, I don't think that accreditation makes universities credible, rather accreditation helps those unfamiliar with particular universities identify those that are credible on their own merits. Which suggests that universities should be displaying other signs of academic credibility besides accreditation. That's especially true when the accreditation is unfamiliar and opaque.

 

I have not been following all these IUGS threads as closely as I might but what Jan has written above is essentially in agreement with my own opinion. At the same time I have to agree with Steve when he says that your refusal to name names, to identify specific people, services, etc. could allow someone to think that you're making it all up or otherwise distorting these alleged communications. If these people/agencies are unwilling to go on the record then it at least leaves open to question how "official" these declarations really are.

 

I have my own reasons for not mentioning specific names of services contacted, which in an adversarial environment such as this, including your proclivity to grossly and inaccurately insinuate that a poster is lying, distorting or providing misinformation, does not in the least negate my credibility whatdoever.

However Kizmet, just like Foerster, you have not contacted ANY academic evaluation services and reported whether your findings negate or discredit any of my feedback and nor have you apparently sent emails to NAB of Dominica or the UWI to obtain their feedback! When you do, and IF your findings are found to be grossly disparate from my own, then you can engage in all the negative, discrediting comments to your hearts desire.

So let's put this matter to rest entirely, do your due diligence and provide substantive evidence in lieu of taking the stand of an armchair general, questioning a poster's credibility without one iota of proof! Looking forward to hearing your findings.

 

heirophant:"Jan, you are starting to seem obsessed with IUGS, starting thread after thread about it. I don't think that it's interesting enough to justify this much attention."

Heirophant, it's not an obsession but a promise in the most recent thread and discussion with Stanislav that I would followup with the entities noted and provide feedback to forum members who may be interested. In fact, I have a genuine interest in determining whether NAB/IUGS has any formal recognition in the US and have no ulterior motives to show otherwise, but the facts.

Heirphant: "As for me, I don't find it very credible and I'm still unmoved by its NAB accreditation. Particularly at the doctoral level, I don't think that accreditation makes universities credible, rather accreditation helps those unfamiliar with particular universities identify those that are credible on their own merits. Which suggests that universities should be displaying other signs of academic credibility besides accreditation. That's especially true when the accreditation is unfamiliar and opaque."

Valid points.

 

Apparently, it has not occurred to Jan, who obviously has a fetish for this issue but is still too lazy to quote in the proper format, that some of us (who, in general, are more qualified than Jan when it comes to nontraditional education) simply don't give a crap. Especially since Jan is such a snot-ass that it makes me look like a nice guy. Hell, is there anyone here to whom Jan has not given at-tee-tood?
:haha:

 

Levicoff, let's put this matter to rest. You hold that you and some other posters are the quintessential experts in nontraditional education but your "name it and frame it" doctorate and out of date name it and frame it books do not support your contention! In fact a review of this and other forums have revealed adversarial, hostile, vile and denigrating comments made by you against innumerable posters. You have denigrated DETC degrees, claimed on another forum that California Southern University would never become accredited and made many other grossly inaccurate statements that don't support your contention that you are the virtual reality master scholar of distant education. Just some food for thought when you engage in hypercritical negative comments about other posters. Now keep your eyes on the road. You still have thousands of miles to go.

 

The funny thing, to me, is that I got this reaction having actually stated clearly and explicitly that I agreed with what Jan was saying. The rest of my post was simply an explanation of another members comment. So, having agreed with her, tried to helpfully explain another's post and been slapped for my troubles, I feel that I've done my due diligence on the real issue here. I've determined that Jan is not really interested in engaging in civil conversation or debate but is, in fact, only interested in stirring up trouble. She is just a garden variety troll. And it really is best if trolls are not fed.

 

What is NAB?

 

Ted, NAB is the acronym for the National Accreditation Board of Dominica.

The issue here is that I have earnestly went out of my way, spending my time, to reach out to a significant number of Academic evaluation services, NAB and the University of the West Indies in an attempt to bring closure to the question as to the recognition, acceptability and utility of a doctorate from one of NAB's ONLY graduate school, the International University of Graduate Studies (IUGS) in the United States. In fact, I have not provided the names of the academic evaluation services I contacted because of the adversarial nature of some of the posters on this forum, just as I don't identify myself, due to the potential for vindictive behavior that I have observed happen against a few posters in the past on this forum who revealed their identity.

Unfortunately, due to a conflict of interest on the part of Steve Foerster, due to his attempt to obtain accreditation from NAB (for a "school" he is developing), he has been continuously attempting to undermine the credibility of my feedback by making all sorts of negative innuendos and comments to discredit my findings, while he has not provided one iota of evidence that does so!

IMO, for a moderator to give credence to such ongoing, undermining comments, subtle or direct, by "agreeing" with Steve's "perceptions", a poster who has an obvious conflict of interest, about any undermining inferences or statements he says pertaining to my findings, raises questions as to their motives for doing so. Just an observation.

 

So, let's do an informal poll right here in the thread . . .

How many people feel that Jan should be banned at this point?

:naughty: :yo:

 

Why, for expressing their opinion on a discussion board? Really, or do you have other reasons?

 

Of course Levicoff wants me banned because he realizes that my feedback regarding his hostile and devaluing style of interacting with posters who disagree with him, other than his sycophants, and his highly questionable "advice", is right on mark! In short he feels apprehensive that he's been tagged!

I also suggest that any fair, impartial moderation would have banned Levicoff for the most vile, egregious personal attacks perpetrated against other posters under the guise of being helpful. The fact that he wasn't banned due to his being a long term member of this forum is not a valid rationale for allowing him to continue to engage in such obnoxious behavior. If substance and credibility is the basis for being respected on this forum, Levicoff has not demonstrated this either because the majority of his advice is based on his personal likes and dislikes or whether the poster agrees with him, not the facts.

 

You realize that you don't have credibility to act like you do? We do not know your real name, and while you do try to dig up relevant information, this effort pales in comparison with just one episode in Steve's history with the topic and the forum: namely, MIGS lawsuit.
I suggest you try to reflect on how YOUR actions help you make enemies even when LITERALLY NO ONE DISAGREES WITH YOU on merits?
Allow me to demonstrate. Here is your sole recommendation in this thread:

This is factual and free from hyperbole. I may nitpick on "virtually nonexistent", but I must agree that IUGS is a rather poor choice for license-seeking aspiring psychologist. Any foreign degree is; let alone the one not explicitly in Clinical Psych and so loosely structured, with kinks in recognition. Not even IUGS itself would argue with this. Why then are you so combative? BTW, comment that your testimony is not as credible without naming your sources is absolutely fair; I'm baffled why would you take this seriously and counterattack. Things you report are PLAUSIBLE, but not sourced; this is simply fact.

 

No. We would lose valuable contributors long ago if moderators banned people for being ill tempered.

 

Well yeah; accreditation is sign of credibility not source of it. I would also agree IUGS is lacking in displaying signs of credibility. Remember Euclid, a peculiar institution that failed to convince this board of its legitimacy? It is ran by volunteers and part-timers; folks suggested that it's essentially a project of Fr. Laurent Cleenewerck. It is recognized in a dozen tiny nations by a very unusual arrangement (international treaty); the only country that purports to provide it regular oversight is The Gambia, a poor African nation that was recently almost invaded by neighbors after botched elections (or rather, elections aftermath: the vote itself worked a little too well, as longtime dictator failed to win. Hence the troubles.). Yet look at that web site:
EUCLID (Euclid University) | Official Site

This tiny semi-amateur school takes great pains to gather and display any shred of a sign of academic/diplomatic/whatever life and proudly display it for maximum effect. Great boost for any graduate, much needed since Gambian accreditation may well fail to impress.
In contrast, IUGS is ran by qualified academics who seem utterly uninterested in doing more than needed to maintain a certain level of cash flow; a retirement part-time business. They attract dozens of people submitting some kind of academic product; some are without doubt passionate about their topic; it can't be too hard to find and display a few of more promising works. No. Web site is as barebones as it gets. Tuition they charge is not trivial; it is a disservice for students that the admin/proprietors make such half-assed job of building the case for a school. Seriously, hire Fr. Laurent and try harder.

There is no evidence of it, but I feel NAB is sincere and may grow up to be a respected accreditor; if so, IUGS may be forced to make (more) changes.
Having said that, I still think IUGS degree may serve some (relatively few) students well, and that there is no evidence it is currently a mill. Still, in most cases I'd recommend other alternatives.