Update from me: Grenoble and beyond.....

Seems like the graduation rate is around 15%. Typical for a European program; actually a good sign that the program is rigorous.

 

Greetings

I am still active in the Grenoble DBA program and am the volunteer coordinator for the Grenoble workshop that will be held this June 20-22 in Oxford, Mississippi. There will be two professors from Grenoble at this workshop and this is a great opportunity to learn more about the program and meet those that are enrolled. There is no charge for this workshop, except for your accommodations, and I would be happy to take any of the contributors of degreeinfo out as my guests for dinner in Oxford during this weekend (I was a Hurricane Katrina refugee in Oxford for over a month so I know all the good restaurants). It is always great to meet my fellow posters, for example I met Han for the first time at a train station in Lyon, France, so hopefully I will have this opportunity in Oxford. If you are near Oxford during this weekend, please drop by and say hello. In fact, I will even go one better – if you are near Memphis, which is the nearest airport/train station to Oxford, let me know and I will pick you up.

In response to another comment about careers, a number of Grenoble DBA graduates are now in tenure track positions at AACSB schools. One recent graduate will even give a talk at the June seminar on how he switched careers at age 51 from a service business to a tenure track position at an AACSB school.

As discussed by others in this post, many of the Research Fellows in the program took time off due to Hurricane Katrina related issues. A number of homes and offices of the Fellows were destroyed and in many cases, their research was too. (Putting your back-up copy in another section of a building is not helpful when there is no longer a building. One Fellow put copies in three different homes and all three were destroyed). Much of our Grenoble related activity in New Orleans in 2006-07 was helping our group’s families salvage what they could. It was only in March of this year that many started back on their research. You may wish to consider this when looking at the graduation rate, there is a possibility it is somewhat skewed due to Katrina related issues.

Again, if you are near Oxford the weekend of June 20-22 and would like to stop by you are welcome.


Denver

[email protected]

PS I am a volunteer for this seminar and am not an employee of the school. If you would like to know more about the program, the best way is to contact the school directly at the following links:

DBA website: http://www.grenoble-em.com/461grenoble-business-school-grenoble-ecole-de-management-dba-program-2

Stella Lishman, DBA administrator [email protected]

Benoit Aubert, Director of the U.S. program [email protected]

 

Hmm... but could also be interpreted the opposite way: there could either be something wrong with their admissions process (not doing the right kind of screening to get the for the type of students they desire who are likely to finish the program) or there's something wrong with the program (e.g., unnecessarily making it more rigorous for "image" purposes rather than for some legitimate educational objective, a non-supportive environment, poor monitoring of student progress and poor delivery of student services, etc.)...

I'm not saying of course that that's the case. But the flip side of a small graduation rate is similar to the perception human resources experts get when a company has a high turn-over rate (the inability to keep people), which would raise a red flag...

 

As I understand it, the European way is to admit many and very few finish. The American way is admit few and very few finish. As Scott mentioned, these figures are not abnormal for European doctorates.

 

This is what I have heard as well. I was told that many US schools only admit 1-2 a year, and they are very rigorous in the screening process, as the European model is one that they admit a few more, and the rigor weeds them out. (or *life* happening).

This is shown in the middle portion of the program, where the Research Degree may be granted and that is where a student maybe asked to stop, due to their performance up to that point, rather than moving into the Doctorate program - I don't think the US model has such a thing from my discussions with my colleagues.

 

This is typical of UK programs. Most PhD students are registered in an MPhil program initially. If they can't progress into the PhD, they usually leave with the Master of Philosophy.

 

There is no one American way. At some American universities, you admit many and few finish, while at other American universities, you admit few and many (of those few) finish.

 

In the US model, one usually initially applies for the MA and then re-applies for the PhD and it is entirely possible to complete the MA but have one's PhD application rejected. Alternatively, in some US programs, one applies directly to the PhD but may very well wash, leaving with the MA if one has completed coursework and comps. In the UK model, if I understand correctly, one is admitted directly to the PhD (or DPhil), which is a dissertation-only degree and one can be either counselled out with the MPhil or be allowed to continue on to the PhD (or DPhil).

 

In the UK model, one can usually gain entry into a PhD without a master's degree, however, that person is registered in an MPhil for a year or two. If satisfactory research progress is made, the MPhil is granted (or not) and that person is transferred into the PhD. If the PhD doesn't work out, the person will leave with the MPhil.

Most UK PhD's are exclusively examined through a dissertation of about 100,000 words (400 pages). There are usually no course requirements unless deemed necessary by the supervisor.

 

Very true, I was speaking from a broad generalization standpoint. If I was to apply for a traditional (residential) B&M PhD in Accounting for instance, I would be competing for 2 or 3 spots at most universities in the US.

 

Han

Again congratulations on your accomplishment.

Are you or your fellow graduates finding any discrimination in academia about having a DBA instead of a PhD?

 

Yes and no. I am finding there is not-recognition and requests for clarification. The good part is that Grenoble is great about providing that information. It also helps that they are so active with AACSB (on the Board currently).

 

I should add my Canadian counterpart found no issues.... go figure!

 

Not surprising at all. Canada being a bilingual country (English and French) there is more acceptance of international qualifications there. The leader of the federal opposition party, Stephane Dion, has a doctorate in sociology from the Institut d'Etudes Politiques de Paris in France. Many students from the Province of Quebec in Canada study in France, so you see a lot of degrees from France in academic circles. As an American, you would probably have an easier time finding tenure in Canada than the US.

 

In my department, we just a hired professor graduated from a French University. There are quite a few graduates from French schools teaching in Canada. The issue is not so much recognition but timing. French, Australian, American or any other nationality is only good when there is demand for it and no qualified local individuals are available. A DBA from Grenoble with an accounting designation would have no issues getting tenure in Canada but I wouldn't say the same thing with a DBA in Human Resources or MIS.

 

Why is this? I did not realize this and am intrigued on WHY?

 

MIS is in bad shape now, most schools in Canada have a hard time trying to maintain their existing faculty busy enough so never mind new faculty. I have applied for many positions in MIS and the responses are that most schools are not planning to hire MIS faculty this year or next. HR departments are very small and have almost no openings. On the contrary, Accounting faculties are having a hard time getting local graduates since most accounting graduates hardly go for master's so never mind doctorates. An accounting graduate makes about 80K after few years while an assistant professor makes 60K so there is the reason why accounting professors are hard to find nowadays. Few Canadian accounting associations have started programs to attract PhDs into accounting by making it easy for them to get an accounting designation.

 

I concur with RFValve. Since accounting is a profession, most undergraduates go on to obtain their CA, CGA or CMA designations and land well-paying jobs in industry. There seems to be a massive need for good accountants in industry nowadays. I also agree that a DBA from Grenoble, especially combined with an American CPA designation would do quite well in Canada.

 

Does anyone know if Grenoble is having any workshops this summer is Mississippi (or anywhere else in USA). Denver, are you still involved sir? Han, any updates from you? I am trying to hook up with any currently enrolled DBA students to see whats their experience like.

 

Try sending Denver a PM. He's pretty responsive.