UOP DBA, Walden, Capella or Northcentral's PhD

Re: Response to comments

I agree, we are all in the same boat. I'm planning to join a research institute for a post doct after my DL DBA. Any accredited doctorate can give you the ticket for a post doc where you can build your publication record. I agree that "fast-track" doctorates can be only good if you have good working experience. The main issue is that many come to the forum with the idea that a PhD from an online school like NCU will lead them to a tenure track position at a B&M institution when the market is saturated with PhDs from traditional 5 year full time programs that are competing for the same positions.

 

Utility of DL degree

Yes, I agree. The B & M universities really developed the more applied doctoral programs to keep production up without further saturation of the market. True academics, like anyone detached from the private sector, would hold production to high levels regardless of their ability to place their graduates and flooded the markets for many years, simply to enrich their profession, just as I would have had I been in their position. They measure everything on an input basis, regardless of the outcomes. In that sense, I'm happy to be back in the private sector. We had some post docs in our institute for $30k/year who were there to co-publish with other docs around the institute and search for a better opportunity. It's no secret that post docs operate under a model of exploitation, as an extension of the graduate assistantship. What's new. The money is brutallly low, but who's in academics for money anyway? Had I not had financial issues, I'd still be in my B & M program and hold the highest respect for those who have made this trek.

I'll probably stay in the private sector and get an adjuct job. To teach anything other than undergraduate at an AACSB B school, one needs a terminal degree; hence, the ph.d. even for adjuct work. Alternatively, I may retire in my mid 50's into academia going the institute route probably, with teaching by opportunity. Either way, I'm riding my professional experience.

Good luck with your DBA program and thanks for the advice.

John

 

Re: Utility of DL degree

John,

As a positive thing, I have met at least two instructors teaching full time at a RA institution with a PhD from NCU. However, the institution did not require a PhD but it was taken as a dressing and considered in the hiring.

I think that any RA DL PhD will do it for you as you have the required experience and adjunct positions are more based on experience than prestige of the PhD. It seems that the PhD at NCU is the most convenient in terms of residencies and concentrations. It might not be Harvard but it satisfies the minimum requirements for most of the adjunct positions.

 

Northcentral

Yep, it's starting to look like NCU. The one thing that would kill me is if they switched the tuition to the lump sum per semester. I really like the Nova DBA, but may be moving from Tampa, which would make doing the residency a real pain. No decisions yet, but am working the phone and taking notes.

 

For Andy re: DBA Nova Southeastern

I really appreciate all your comments in response to my questions. I had a good conversation today with folks at Nova about doing the D.B.A. (Finance). After surfing their site and finding many hits of working Nova graduates in faculty position, it's definetly a proven product with a long and stable history of placing its students. I wish the finance specialization was 18 hours, because I understand that community colleges in the south require a minimum of 18 in the subject to be taught. I don't know if small regional colleges have this rule or whether it is just community college. I beleive the rule comes from accredidation, but I'm going to check.

Sometimes I'm crushed by Friday from busy work weeks. I still have to warm up to being in class all day Sat/Sun for a weekend per month.

 

Re: Re: UOP DBA, Walden, Capella or Northcentral's PhD

I would be very cautious about enrolling in Union right now. Not because of the OBR's concerns about academics, or Union's financial viability. Both of those seem under control. Rather, I'd be cautious about Union because there are substantial changes coming to the Ph.D. program, severely limiting what you can do to earn your degree (and the concentrations that will be available.) Enrolling learners are now cautioned that these changes--discussed, but as yet unannounced--will apply to them even if they've already enrolled. It might be better to wait until Union announces its program changes for the Ph.D.

Rich Douglas, Ph.D. (Union)

 

Re: Northcentral

Messagewriter,
I'll just give you the benefit of my short experience at NCU and I highly recommend the school for anyone who can work independently. I'll try to make my comments brief:

1. They are very friendly and easy to talk to about everything I have needed so far...not only my questions during the application and start-up but when I had a special course request "problem". They met my need 100% with real interest and efficiency.

2. The payment plan is flexible and has gone without a hitch so far. This may be changing so don't delay in checking out the school to see if it meets your needs. The last two times there were changes (the ones I'm familiar with) the current students were not required to change .

3. You referred to NCU as "fast-track"...perhaps, in the sense that you do have a great measure of control over how quickly you meet the requirements and move on to the next course, however, this will only be beneficial to you if you have the time to give the coursework. You mentioned a time constraint of some sort...so don't be thinking "fast-track" under those circumstances. The courses are designed to demonstrate student learning and that means homework...the learning is rewarding, however.

4. It is true that there are still no residential requirements for their programs although some students are asking them to consider bringing some residential requirements into certain programs (Psych, in particular). I would love to see some residential optional for the business programs but there is no talk of that.

5. Although I understand the negative comments about their website I feel I would like to clarify...it is not that it is difficult or that there are problems with getting it to function properly, it is more than it feels a little young for us...remember Prodigy from the 80's? It had colors and designs that let you know it was clearly designed for kids...it is sort of like that...but they are continuing to work on it and to develop it fully and they do ask for input...I have recommendations as I'm sure others do and I have no doubt that they will get to it all eventually. They seem dedicated to making NCU into a very large, well-respected university. From what I have experienced, I believe they will succeed.

Good luck finding the best school for your needs. If it turns out to be NCU you can feel free to contact me through the student website. My program is Business-Health Administration specialty.


.

 

Debs comments

Deb,

Thanks. That was helpful. I was in a sticks and bricks Ph.D. for a year, so I guess I see fast track more as someting that can be done in 3.5 years. The folks in the sticks and bricks institutions seem to obstruct the process either to enrich themselved in terms of building more demand for more professors, plus they typically exploit students to support their work. Hence, they actually think 5-7 years is reasonable, when 3-4 is more rational if they would embrace efficiency and simply focus on the students, which will never happen. I'd do the same thing if I were them and withdrew volunarily for financial reasons. But I must say as a business manager, I do appreicate efficiency. It seems to me at first glance that at the DL schools generally, one's increased efforts may be rewarded by a reduction in time to graduate. This is often not the general case in the B & M schools from my experiance, as tenured professors "feel a Ph.D. should take a certain amount of years" regardless of your effort level and actual productivity. I have great respect for Ph.D. in the B & M institutions, but the process must continue to change as the private sector - DL's primarily, push them towards efficiency as their most profitable academic programs are cherry picked by the U of P's of the world.

Thanks again,

John

 

Rich's comments

Rich, you make a very good point that concerns me about DL schools. They are corporations, so do "learners" sign a contract with them. Or, may they unilaterally change the program once a learner is into the thing for 1.5 years? If NCU sticks to what's on the books when a learner starts, that's pretty much how the B & M's do it, but of course the student can take the change if they want. All programs improve and change over time.

As an example with NCU, I look at it as the net present value of all the time foregone (whether from work or leisure) plus the tuition, expenses, etc. over say 3.5 years. For me, that's hundreds of thousands. What's to say they don't change the hours, or require a residency, or change to lump sum by semester billings, or eliminate my intended specialization, etc... These DL programs seems to carry a lot of risk. Does anyone know if a business contract is executed at the time of enrollment, or whether one is "vested" in the catalog's policy, etc. at that time?

John

 

John,

there have been several changes in semester format and tuition since I enrolled at NCU. My tuition is locked and my program flexibility has remained despite changes for new students. The information below is from the learner handbook:

"2.2 CATALOG
During admissions and enrollment, each Learner receives instructions on how to access the Catalog. These instructions include going to www.ncu.edu and clicking on "course catalog" under the "Degree Programs" heading, and then clicking on "Download the Complete Catalog". Although some of the University’s policies and procedures may change over time, your program is governed by the Catalog in place at the time of your enrollment. For example, if an additional requirement is added to a program, you will not need to change your degree plan to meet that requirement. It is your option, however, to choose to conform to the new requirement, if you believe it is in your best interest. If you leave the University and return later, your degree program will be governed by the Catalog in effect on your return date. Please download and keep your Catalog so that you are sure of the requirements for your degree."

Hope this info helps.

Regards,

Kevin

 

Fred's comments

Thanks Fred.

I was talking to Randy on the phone this evening. He just started at NCU and is in his first course. From your post, I gather that you are happy with NCU? After talking to some folks at NCU, they do seem to have a strong focus on the student.

 

Re: Northcentral

With respect to Nova - have you noticed all the cluster sites that they have for the DBA program? Besides several Florida locations, they have cluster sites in:

Atlanta, GA
Austin, TX
Brattleboro, VT
Danville, VA
Little Rock, AR
Los Angeles, CA
Alexandria, VA
Whiting, IN

Regards - Andy

 

the only concern I have is the lack of at least one reaccreditation. But with the approval for the Education program by the accreditor I think NCU is headed in the right direction.

I will compliment them on the automated processes and the use of electronic communication. My only complaint (besides the website) is the lack of NCU student email accounts.

Good luck on your studies,

 

Re: Rich's comments

Many (most?) schools operate under the policy of applying the rules in place when you enroll, unless new changes are to your (the student's) advantage. You're often given the choice to "move up" to a new catalog if the new catalog benefits you.

Some schools have written policies to this effect.

Union's situation is unique because they're enrolling students while they anticipate major changes upcoming, changes the school will be compelled to apply to its current students; no "grandfathering."

 

Feds comments about accredidation

Yes, I was talking to Rachel in admissions about that. NCU is not up for reaccredidation until the 2007-2008 school year. I checked wth HLC to confirm that NCU received accredidation on February 20, 2003 and is not scheduled for a comprehensive evaluation until the 2007-2008 school year. Your point that Rachel echoed is that NCU just went through about a year's process to get their educational programs accredited, based on her comments. Plus, they were awarded membership in the US Department of Education's Distance Education Demonstration Program, which can be checked out here: http://www.ed.gov/programs/disted/desc-northcentral.html

All these elements mean is that there has been a some spot evaluation and an ongong evaluation process as a funtion of DEDP membership that may mitigate the risk associated with the long intervale between accredidation evaluatinos. I fully intend to pull the Dunn and Bradstreet for Northcentral University, Inc. and I am concerned that the checks and balances associated with typical B & M executive management is absent at entities like NCU. When you consolidate all the power and stock ownership in one man, risk becomes greater. I own companies, and having a board does not necessarily change the consolidation of the power in company owner. If board members disagree, they simply are replaced by one's that do. That's life in the private sector with closely held private corporations.

Andy, your comments and continued support of Nova are admirable. As a former B & M Ph.D. student, I highly value Nova's mission and that they are a non-profit. I understand and agree with your points about a higher ratio of revenue going to educational assets, rather than profit. However, I do suspect that the "spread" is a bit more compressed, due to the unfortunate managerial decision structure of non-profit burocracies. I'm still looking at Nova. Upon reading through their catalog yesterday however, I'm taken back by the wide and varied residential components, trips to conferences, etc. I did this stuff before and have been to four major academic conferences. I regret that the opportunity cost of my professional time may outweight these benifits. Frankly, I wish I were not 43. Plus, the tuition and fees exceed $52,000, making it expensive without opportunity costs.

No decision yet. Nova is an excellent program.