UNIVERSIDAD CRISTIANA DEL SUR translated as SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by laferney, Aug 27, 2006.

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  1. bullet

    bullet New Member

    opps its 6 not 7%

    JLV et al,


    Oppps, I am wrong, its not 7% of GDP it´s (6%) so I am off by 1%. I like to be accurate.

    And since you like to be "contrer - contrer" to anything I say, even thou I am a trained legal mind, you might want to take a look at this:

    "Luis Sánchez Sancho, diputado ante la Asamblea Nacional en el período 1990-1996, recordó que el “seis por ciento” nace de la Ley 89 y es parte de unas 50 leyes, conocidas como “Leyes de la Piñata”, aprobadas entre marzo y abril de 1990 “como un mecanismo de castigo” del Frente Sandinista al nuevo Gobierno llamado de la UNO, presidido por doña Violeta B. de Chamorro.

    “Antes de marzo de 1990 no había ni seis por ciento, ni cinco por ciento, ni cuatro por ciento, ni nada. Ni siquiera había autonomía universitaria”, recordó Sánchez. "

    http://www.laprensa.com.ni/archivo/2005/noviembre/16/nacionales/nacionales-20051116-09.html

    NOTICE IT READS THAT BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE 6% THERE WAS NO LAW OF AUTONOMOUS EDUCATION.
     
  2. bullet

    bullet New Member

    JLV ROUND TWO DING DING

    ARTICLE II OF LAW 89 OF HIGHER EDUCATION AUTONOMY OF THE REPUBLIC OF NICARAGUA (TAKEN FROM THE WEBSITE OF THE NATIONAL REGULATOR OF THE REPUBLIC OF NICARAGUA)

    http://www.cnu.edu.ni/ley.shtml

    ARTICLE II

    Que la autonomía universitaria, por la que se ha luchado en Nicaragua desde hace años, implica la capacidad de la Universidad para formular su propia legislación interna, designar sus autoridades, autogobernarse y planificar su actividad académica, así como disponer de sus fondos con entera libertad;


    Rough Translation

    That the university autonomoy, that for which has been fought over in Nicaragua for years, implies the capacity of the University to formulate its on internal legislation, designate authorities, autogovern and plan its academic activity, as well as use its funds with entire liberty;

    ARTICLE III

    Que de acuerdo con su programa histórico, la Revolución ha reconocido a las Universidades y Centros de Educación Superior, carácter de instituciones con plena autonomía en lo académico, en lo administrativo y en lo económico

    Rough Translation

    That in accordance with its historic program, the revolution has recognized the universities and the superior education centers, with character as fully autonomous in the academic, in the adminisrative and in the economic.

    Dont worry there is more to come..........................
     
  3. bullet

    bullet New Member

    KO

    Arto. 8. Las Universidades y Centros de Educación Técnica Superior del país gozarán de autonomía académica, financiera, orgánica y administrativa, entendidas de la siguiente manera:
    1. Autonomía docente o académica: implica que pueden por sí mismas nombrar y remover a su personal docente y académico, por medio de los procedimientos y requisitos que ellas mismas señalen; seleccionar a sus alumnos, mediante las pruebas y condiciones necesarias; elaborar y aprobar sus planes y programas de estudios y de investigación, etc.
    Rouge Translation

    Article 8. The Universities and the Centers for Higher Technical Education of the country enjoy academic, financial, organic and administrative autonomy, which should be understood as the following:

    1. Academic or Faculty autonomy: Implies that by their own accord they can appoint and remove their own personal and academic faculty, through the procedures and requisites that they point out; select their alumnus, through tests and necessary conditions; elaborate and approve their courses and study programs and investigation, etc.


    Arto. 10. Las Universidades y Centros de Educación Técnica Superior podrán mantener y promover relaciones con entidades académicas, científicas y culturales con sede dentro o fuera del país.

    Article 10. The Universities and the Centers for Higher Technical Education can maintain and promote relations with academic, scientific and cultural entities inside or outside of the country
     
  4. bullet

    bullet New Member

    LAW 89 OF HIGHER EDUCATION NICARAGUA

    LAW 89 OF HIGHER EDUCATION OF NICARAGUA SAYS IT ALL.

    Article 8 is the kicker, Univerisites , after approval have full autonomy to create ANY programs (DEGREE GRANTING OR NOT) they want.

    So lets see:

    Once a university has:

    1) ACT OF CONGRESS

    2) PRESIDENTIAL DECREE

    3) CNU ACCREDITATION

    A three step process of oh, I dunno, 4 years, after which the University can create ANY program it wants, at any level, PERIOD.


    You don´t see the programs on the UCN, because according to Dr. López (Vice Chancellor of the University):

    1. They are making a new website (out with the old and in with the new).
     
  5. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    What we know for sure at this point:

    Are those programs Mr. Laferney mentioned included in the list of Conesup, the Costa Rican accrediting organ depending directly on the Ministry of Education? No.

    Are they, on the contrary, included in the list of CNU, the accrediting Nicaraguan institution depending also directly on the Ministry of Education? Nope. :D

    Of course, we can take bullet's word, and start sending money and enroll in any of those unlisted, unrecognized programs (that are offered in English to attract American-only students!) or come to terms with reality and understand that as of today (those lists have been updated this year 2006) those degrees are worthless in both Costa Rica and Nicaragua. Is it really surprising the categorical reaction of Naces quickly dismissing those degrees? ;)
     
  6. bullet

    bullet New Member

    Cheap Perfume JLV

    JLV,

    What, no lip over the law 89 of Nicaragua, good, at least you won´t be posting on legal issues you know NADA about.
     
  7. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    I think at this point all we need to know is that those programs as of today are worthless in both Nicaragua, and Costa Rica (according to their respective national education authorities).

    Everything else, bullet, is a mere red herring. It won't fly here. :)
     
  8. laferney

    laferney Member

    How I view it

    All I know is NACES And AACRAO say the doctoral program is not approved and the Costa Rican embassy agrees it's not listed with CONESUP. The final piece is CONESUP - I've e-mailed the Agency and The director, Mr. Sergio Calvo and am waiting for their response. The Costa Rican embassy did say the list by CONESUP has not been updated in 2 years-so giving them the benefit of the doubt (and I do emphasize "DOUBT") we'll see.

    The university in their response to me says"Unfortunately our current LAW of Higher Education (circa 1980) when it was written and approved twenty-six years ago did not foresee the creation of the internet, nor the exportation of Higher Education, via any electronic medium. Since our laws do not contemplate the use of electronic or other mediums to export our education, our national supervisor (CONESUP) cannot approve or disapprove the use of new technologies (the internet) to offer programs outside of Costa Rica, since the mandate of CONESUP is to inspect (not intervene) in educational programs within our borders, not outside of them, even if they wanted to. Thus using a basic principal of the law in any civilized country, that which is not expressly prohibited by the law IS ALLOWED, and in this case we are discussing the exportation of educational programs.
    We are able to operate using International Standards abroad, we need nothing more, so long as we adhere to the acceptable principals of Higher Education (GAAP STANDARDS)
    The above statement doesn't sound too promising for it's inclusion in CONSUP.
    NACES response indicates that "it would lead me to believe that the doctoral program from this university would not have recognition in Costa Rica." So using GAAP and ODA standards if a degree isn't recognized in it's own country it isn't gonna fly here in the United States.
    There are those foreign degree evaluation services that might say it's equivalent based on the university's inclusion in the UNESCO guide, but the American Psychological Association requires an eval by NACES or AACRAO (they prefer WES) to be considered for membership. so with this doctorate you couldn't be a member of the APA. You couldn't be licensed in any state with it and without a foreign degree eval from NACES or AACRAO
    it wouldn't be accepted for a teaching job at any university. So it would have no value.
    I wish the doctoral was accredited and equivelent- it would be a good program at a good price and another Distance study option for us Degreeinfoers. But it is what it is until further evidence is given what it is now is not of any value to a student in the USA and according to NACES in Costa Rica. As for UCN in Nicaragua I've searched extensively for any site that connects psychology to this university and come up with nothing. And as Billy Preston once said" Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'
    You gotta have somethin'
    If you wanna be with me"

    IF and when CONESUP replies I'll post it . Thanks for this lively debate.
     
  9. bullet

    bullet New Member

    There he is.

    JLV = True to form, there was the "lip". Ha, ha.

    Laferny= From the letter you posted, or the portion of it, they are already telling you the program is not listed by CONESUP.
     
  10. laferney

    laferney Member

    Yes, I know- that's why I emphasized "DOUBT!" That's also why it is important to hear CONESUP view of this -do they see it as legal and ethical for a university in their country to offer a degree to others in other countries that has no utility or is it as SCU says due to the technology outpacing the law and making it legal because it isn't illegal. (but again still useless) I hope they reply soon -if not I'll e-mail them again soon.
     
  11. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Laferney, don't expect much from all this. They are not authorized by any official body to award those degrees. Those degrees cannot be used in either Nicaragua or Costa Rica. I dobt they mean anything in the States. In any case keep your money and time safe until there is something concrete from Conesup. In my impression, fully aware of the demand there is for these degrees, they are just hunting for US clientele by trying to make believe potential students that since UCS is an authorized university (using their own nomenclature) all programs it offers are equally authorized. ;)
     
  12. bullet

    bullet New Member

    Mike,

    I suppose it is ethical, here is a letter addressed to CONESUP and it has the Seal of CONESUP, so I don´t think they would send the info to CONESUP if they are violating the law or being "unethical".

    http://www.scu.ac.cr/common/UCN777.htm
     
  13. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Why would they resort to that Nicaraguan university, which is equally unauthorized to grant that type of degrees, beats me. Perhaps they want to make the impression they are doubly authorized or some unbelievable crap like that.
     
  14. bullet

    bullet New Member

    JUST DO IT

    JLV,

    You are the next coming of Bear, thank you oh so enlighten´one. I know you know spanish, so write the CNU and ask them, post the results here.



    :D
     
  15. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    I have been defending (very patiently) that those universities are not authorized by any official educational institution in their respective countries to offer those degrees. Can you show I am wrong? Can you demonstrate that Conesup or CNU have authorized those universities to grant those degrees they advertise? So far all you have shown is your frustration and your inability to prove me wrong. Is that why you feel the need to resort to abuse?
     
  16. laferney

    laferney Member

    The Registrar at SCU seemed sincere in their letter to me and addressed my concerns - however facts are facts - They may have an agreement with UCN -( there are false credentials/letters posted on the internet) but if this so(and I have no reason not to believe It) it would have no bearing on a student from the US. I agree with JLV in that the degree's validity appears to be lacking not only in the USA but also in Costa RICA. I base this on the response from NACES and the Costa Rican Embassy.
    I'm not sure what Bullet is trying to say - perhaps you can clarify a few things
    A. "UCN enjoys full autonomy to offer any and all levels of Higher Education Degree or Diploma awarding programs at any level via a meeting of the Board of Directors, approval of the course name, objectives and contents, in other words, once a University in Nicaragua obtains the full recognition via an act of Congress and Presidential Decree and once it has obtained accreditation from the National Accreditor, all of its programs are automatically accredited." Question:
    But it has no Psychology programs . so there is no approval of the course name , objectives and contents. " all of its programs are automatically accredited" But the doctorate in Psychology is SCU's , not UCNs. Can you clarify?
    B.I see nothing wrong with universites sharing programs but I must ask as JLV does " why would UCN need to issue a dual degree if the SCU degree was valid?
    C:You don´t see the programs on the UCN, because according to Dr. López (Vice Chancellor of the University):
    1. They are making a new website (out with the old and in with the new). Can he post something here to tell us about the Psychology programs-when will the new website be ready?
    I admire your defending of the educational systems in the region. But they are not immune to this sort of thing.Empressarial used thier Bachelor's level CONESUP status to offer doctorates (at extremely high tuitions) to US citizens. Much has been debated about that on Degreeinfo.
    So i appreciate both views but my concern is whether these degrees would meet the goal of being a doctoral level psychologist (not a licensed one but eligible for APA membership) and it wouldn't . Would this doctoral degree since it has practicums built in allow for licensure as a Psychologist in Costa Rica or Nicaragua? I couldn't find out what there licensing bureaus or psychological association would say in a web search.
     
  17. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Laferney, I am afraid that is all we are discussing here, our friend's hypersensitivity to what he perceives to be a criticicism of his country's educational system. Everything appears to be crystal clear to everybody else. In fact, everyone here expresssed her/himself with exquisite care when referring to Costa Rica and its educational system. You wanted to study with them! And so would I. What could be a better compliment?

    Regarding this issue, as of today (for the nth time) those universities aren't authorized to offer any of those degrees. :) I think they also know about Empresarial......
     
  18. bullet

    bullet New Member

    lets wait and see

    I have written the Nicaraguan Regulators today. I have asked for an official reply with no if , and or buts.

    What ever they say, I will post it here for all to view, until we have that, let´s not pass judgement.

    :D
     
  19. bullet

    bullet New Member

    contents of my letter

    Honorable
    Ing. Arturo Collado Maldonado
    Secretario Técnico
    Consejo Nacional de Universidades – CNU
    Managua, Nicaragua
    Tel. 278-5072, 278-1053
    Fax: 278-3385 04 Septiembre de 2006


    Estimado Ing. Collado Maldonado,


    Reciba usted un cordial saludo desde la Republica de Costa Rica, recientemente estuve navegando el Internet y me topé con la sorpresa que una Universidad Costarricense firmó en días pasados un convenio de cooperación con una Universidad Nicaragüense llamado la Universidad Central de Nicaragua. La verdad es que estoy interesado en matricularme en un programa de Doctorado en Psicología que ofrece la Universidad Costarricense pero con titulación profesional que vendría de la Universidad en Nicaragua (La Universidad Central de Nicaragua). O sea yo, desde donde me ubico por mi trabajo y mis negocios ya sea Costa Rica o en los Estados Unidos, estudiaría con la Universidad Costarricense y una vez cumplido todos los requisitos y mediante este convenio provechoso, el titulo me lo daría la Universidad Central de Nicaragua. No obstante tengo una duda, no veo donde el CONSEJO NACIONAL DE UNIVERSIDADES (CNU) de Nicaragua haya autorizado lo siguiente:

    1. En cuanto a la Universidad Central de Nicaragua no aparece donde está autorizada la Carrera de Doctorado en Psicología (PhD) por parte de la CNU de Nicaragua. Yo busqué en la pagina de la CNU pero no veo por donde ustedes lo autorizaron?

    Yo tomé la libertad de consultarle a un colega mió en Nicaragua que esta muy familiarizado con leyes de ustedes y me dijo que las universidades en Nicaragua gozan de plena libertad de impartir carreras en todos los niveles: Bachiller, Master (Magíster) Doctorados Profesionales y Académicos, sin necesidad de solicitar autorización al Consejo Nacional de Universidades de La Republica de Nicaragua. Por favor, gentil señor, clarifícame donde se ubica la realidad, y si los títulos expedidos por la Universidad Central de Nicaragua y las que son extendidas mediante el convenio con la Universidad Cristiana del Sur de Costa Rica (Southen Christian University) gozarán de reconocimiento en Nicaragua y que si son títulos académicos acreditadas.

    De Usted con todo respeto,


    Lic. E. Alberto Madrigal
     
  20. bullet

    bullet New Member

    Honorable
    Ing. Arturo Collado Maldonado
    Secretario Técnico
    Consejo Nacional de Universidades – CNU
    Managua, Nicaragua
    Tel. 278-5072, 278-1053
    Fax: 278-3385 04 Septiembre de 2006


    Esteemed Eng. Collado Maldonado,

    Receive a cordial salutation from the Republic of Costa Rica, recently I was surfing the Internet and I came upon to my surprise that a Costa Rica University signed in days past a mutual articulation agreement with a Nicaraguan University called Universidad Central de Nicaragua. To be honest I am interested in matriculating in a Doctorate of Psychology program that the Costa Rican University is offering but the professional degree will come from the Nicaraguan University (Universidad Central de Nicaragua). In other words wherever I am due to my job or my business, either in Costa Rica or the USA , I will be studying with the Costa Rican University and as soon as I complete all requisites and through this beneficial agreement, the degree will be awarded by the Universidad Central de Nicaragua. Yet I have a doubt, I cannot find where the CNU (Nicaraguan Educational Regulator of Nicaragua) has authorized the following:

    1. I cannot find where the Universidad Central de Nicaragua has been authorized to teach the program of Doctorate of Psychology (PhD) on behalf of the CNU (Nicaraguan Educational Regulator).

    I took the liberty of asking a Nicaragua colleague of mine that is very familiar with your laws and he told me Nicaragua Universities have full autonomy to impart programs at the: Bachelors, Masters, Doctorates Professional and Academic without the need to be authorized to do so by the CNU (National Educational Regulator of Nicaragua). Please gentile sir, clarify for me where reality is and if the Degrees that are awarded by the Universidad Central de Nicaragua and those that are awarded under the articulation agreement with Southern Christian University of Costa Rica will enjoy recognition in Nicaragua and if they are accredited academic degrees.

    .

    With all due respect,


    Signed on Original

    SPECIAL NOTE: I just got off the telephone with Ena Aguilar, she is the personal secretary to the Director of the CNU in Nicaragua, she said he is going to respond in writing. So lets sit tight and see what the reality is.


    Odds anyone?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2006

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