UNIVERSIDAD CRISTIANA DEL SUR translated as SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by laferney, Aug 27, 2006.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I wish I'd been wrong -- a distance learning EdD in Higher Education Management for $11,000 would be pretty cool.

    -=Steve=-
     
  2. trevor D

    trevor D New Member

    Steve,
    Is this Uni accredited or not? And how does their articulation agreement and dual recognition of degrees fit into the equation?

    Thanks!

    T
     
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    You can read laferney's information as well as I. Yes, they are, but not to offer doctoral programs. I don't see what difference an articulation agreement would make. A consortium agreement in which Universidad Central de Nicaragua issued the degree, though, would be helpful.

    -=Steve=-
     
  4. bullet

    bullet New Member

    SUPER WHAT

    What, what, what, whattttttt??????

    What agreement are we talking about here?

    With who(m)?

    Where do you people read about the agreement and what does it read?

    Why would they need an agreement in the first place? I thought Laferny wanted a degree for use in the USA or Canada????

     
  5. laferney

    laferney Member

    more info

    Received the followng from the Costa Rican Embassy:
    Dear Sir,

    The webpage of the Ministry of Education has a list with the accredited
    private universities in the country, which are accredited by the National
    Superior Education Committee --Consejo Nacional de Educacion Superior
    (Conesup). The website is the following:
    http://www.mep.go.cr/CarrerasAprobadas.html

    You will be able to notice that “Universidad Cristiana del Sur” appears on
    that list, however only Bachelor’s and Licenciate degrees appear there in
    the areas of law, business administration, and theology.

    I have no knowledge why the doctorate is not listed. It may be that the
    information on that site has not been updated (it was updated over 2 years
    ago), or another possibility is that the degree is not yet approved. I
    recommend you speak directly to the Conesup to Mr. Sergio Calvo, the General
    Director of Conesup, at phone + (506) 233-6118, 221-4465 or email
    [email protected] or [email protected]

    Sincerely,
    Embassy of Costa Rica
    Washington, D.C., U.S.A.

    And this from the Registrar at SCU:
    .....................................................................................................

    El contenido de este mensaje de datos incluyendo sus documentos adjuntos no se considera oferta, propuesta o acuerdo, sino hasta que sea confirmado en documento por escrito que contenga la firma del representante legal de Southern Christian University o cualquiera de sus Asociados a nivel internacional. El contenido de este mensaje de datos es confidencial y se entiende dirigido y para uso exclusivo del destinatario, por lo que no podrá distribuirse y/o difundirse por ningún medio sin la previa autorización del emisor original. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, por favor borrarlo permanente, se prohíbe su utilización total o parcial para cualquier fin, y de ser posible notificar por vía de este mismo correo electrónico. Muchas Gracias!


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Mr. LaFerney ,

    On behalf Southern Christian University and myself, I thank very much for your interest in our institution and its programs. As the V.P of International Development, the answer(s) to your question are multi-part, so I will try to answer in the simplest possible terms, as follows:

    Higher Education in Costa Rica is divided into two main branches:

    Public Education : supervised by the Consejo Nacional de Rectores (CONARE) unbinding translation offered as National Council of Rectors and its technical secretariat, the Oficina de Planificacion de la Educacion Superior (OPES).

    Private Education: supervised by the by the Consejo Nacional de Enseñanza Superior Universitaria Privada (CONESUP) non binding translation offered as Adult Council on Private Universities Higher Education, but only for formal studies in Costa Rica. CONESUP supervises (it does not regulate) private education in Costa Rica, as a direct dependant of the Ministry of Education, but is actually a separate body, thus the creation of the law of CONESUP circa 1980.


    Take note that CONESUP cannot supervise public institutions, nor can CONARE supervise private ones.



    The process to obtain recognition by the Government of Costa Rica is a two step process:


    Step One: The University itself must be accredited by the Government. We completed this process. Our internal by-laws that are approved by CONESUP allow us to offer non-residential education, distance education, tutorial education, challenge exam education. Our internal by-laws, rules and regulations that are approved by CONESUP allow us to open branch campuses anywhere in the world we deem fit for our high quality educational programs.

    Step Two: Any program a private university intends to offer within Costa Rica must qualify for Costa Rican Civil Service equivalency. Our University has also completed this process with all of our on campus programs.


    So don´t be surprised about cross border education, we have over three universities that operate on our soil that are not accredited either by CONARE nor CONESUP and that award degrees accredited by other universities or accrediting bodies.



    1.) INCAE (Via Harvard)

    2) Instituto de Estudios Tropicales

    3.) Universidad de Monterrey Costa Rica via Universidad de Monterrey de Mexico

    4) Universidad Para la Paz (via resolution of the United Nations).



    Unfortunately our current LAW of Higher Education (circa 1980) when it was written and approved twenty-six years ago did not foresee the creation of the internet, nor the exportation of Higher Education, via any electronic medium. Since our laws do not contemplate the use of electronic or other mediums to export our education, our national supervisor (CONESUP) cannot approve or disapprove the use of new technologies (the internet) to offer programs outside of Costa Rica, since the mandate of CONESUP is to inspect (not intervene) in educational programs within our borders, not outside of them, even if they wanted to. Thus using a basic principal of the law in any civilized country, that which is not expressly prohibited by the law IS ALLOWED, and in this case we are discussing the exportation of educational programs.


    We are able to operate using International Standards abroad, we need nothing more, so long as we adhere to the acceptable principals of Higher Education (GAAP STANDARDS), but Southern Christian University has never taken the easy path, when it comes to providing quality accredited and recognized education to our international student body.

    Our laws do recognize and allow us to sign any type of international cooperation, exchange, transfer, dual degree, dual recognition agreement(s) with other Universities and Institutions with zero interference and full beneplacito from CONESUP, which is exactly what we did with the Universidad Central de Nicaragua (UCN) www.ucn.edu.ni ,non binding translation offered as, The Central University of Nicaragua (there is also common ownership between the two universities). The UCN is a fully accredited and Government recognized Higher Education Institution in Nicaragua (just like we are) and enjoys full autonomy to offer any and all levels of Higher Education Degree or Diploma awarding programs at any level via a meeting of the Board of Directors, approval of the course name, objectives and contents, in other words, once a University in Nicaragua obtains the full recognition via an act of Congress and Presidential Decree and once it has obtained accreditation from the National Accreditor, all of its programs are automatically accredited. They have entered into an agreement with us to validate all of our international degree granting programs. Our students will enjoy a double transcript and degree award from two Government accredited universities recognized in two different countries!

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/08-02-2006/0004409126&EDATE=

    Do not hesitate to contact us for more information and we look forward to have you as part of our elite international student body.
    Best wishes in your professional journey,
    VP International Development

    If you can sort this out let me know-I still read it that it is not considered GAAP in this country .
     
  6. bullet

    bullet New Member

    duh

    Mike,

    Thanks, now I understand !!!!!!!!!!

    :D
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Re: more info

    I read it as this: They're only licensed to award Bachelor's and Master's degrees, and the law doesn't prohibit them from offering anything they want online to foreigners, they offer distance doctorates. That's legal, I suppose, but awfully sketchy.

    I'm not saying it's not a great program or that they're anything less than a committed group of scholars. I am saying that since there's no third party verification, there's no way to know, and that's scary.

    -=Steve=-
     
  8. laferney

    laferney Member

    It may be legal but if NACES won't recognize their doctoral degrees as equal to RA then it has no value in the USA-the APA would not allow membership with this degree.
    So why market to USA citizens -the degree will be worthless here.
     
  9. bullet

    bullet New Member

    more or less as follows

    Ok. I looked over the letter and its legal basis. Here is what I have found.

    THE LETTER SAYS

    (a) CONESUP is a dependant of the MOE of Costa Rica.

    Law 6693 confirms this: Article I:

    "Create the CONESUP ascribed to the Ministry of Education........"

    (Créase el Consejo Nacional de Enseñanza Superior Universitaria Privada, adscrito al Ministerio de Educación Pública)

    THE LETTER SAYS

    CONESUP inspects and does not interfere.

    (b) What does CONESUP do?

    ARTICLE II Incisive "e":

    "Applies vigilance and inspects the private universities, in accordance with its rules, that the Executive Power will propose, to be approved by it. The Rules should guarantee that the disposition of this law are complied, without coarctation of the liberty that the universities will enjoy, so they can develop their academic activities and faculty, and the growth of its plans and programs."

    (Ejercer vigilancia e inspección sobre las universidades privadas, de acuerdo con el reglamento, que al efecto propondrá al Poder Ejecutivo, para ser aprobado por éste. El reglamento deberá garantizar que se cumplan las disposiciones de esta ley, sin coartar la libertad de que gozarán esas universidades, para desarrollar las actividades académicas y docentes, así como para el desenvolvimiento de sus planes y programas.)

    THE LETTER SAYS

    (c) That accreditation is a two step process; one step is the accreditation of the university………………

    ARTICLE III incisive "a"

    Authorize the creation and the operation of the private universities, when it is proven that they have filled all requisites that this law establishes.

    ("Autorizar la creación y el funcionamiento de las universidades privadas, cuando se compruebe que se llenan los requisitos que esta ley establece.")

    Constitution of the Republic Of Costa Rica
    TITLE VII
    Article 79. - The liberty of teaching is guaranteed; be that as it may all educational centers are under the inspection of the state.
    ARTÍCULO 79.- Se garantiza la libertad de enseñanza. No obstante, todo centro docente privado estará bajo la inspección del Estado.

    Article 87.- The liberty of teaching is a fundamental principal in university learning.

    ARTÍCULO 87.- La libertad de cátedra es principio fundamental de la enseñanza universitaria.
     
  10. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Their master's and bachelor's appear to be legal. Their PhD, however, offers serious doubts regarding its validity after reading all the information you posted. Costa Rica has a tradition of high quality education based on the (tough) Spanish system. I would do a PhD in Costa Rica without any doubt if I had the opportunity. However, that specific PhD you are interested in raises some doubts at least until you contact that person at Conesup as the Embassy in Washington adviced you and he confirms its validity. I am not an specialist but I wouldn't send a dime until Conesup told me in writing this university is legally entitled to offer doctoral degrees. Furthermore, this messy, legal engineering web consisting of offering degrees through three different countries, and educational systems is already suspicious. I'd be careful.
     
  11. bullet

    bullet New Member

    quick draw

    If INCAE can offer unaccredited degrees locally (they operate via Harvard and SACS WITHOUT CONESUP) then why cant this school or any other CR school offer degrees with other accredited universiites..........are there double standards at play?



     
  12. bullet

    bullet New Member

    borrowed this

    I borrowed this:

    I called UCN in Nicaragua and asked:

    (1) What is the deal with SCU?

    (2) Which programs does it cover?

    This is the reply that I got from Lic. Doris Saldamando:

    She gave me an update email address:

    [email protected]

    The person in charge of this area is Dr. Francisco López the Vice-Chancellor of the University.

    UCN was created via an act of the Parliment and Presidential Authorization and then Accredited by the CNU of Nicaragua (just like all universities are).

    She sent me a copy of the documents, although not needed, because the school is listed on the Ministry of Education website.

    They operate a medical school, vet school and nursing school. The med school is listed with the ECFMG/FAIMER , which allows their graduates to sit for the USMLE.

    http://imed.ecfmg.org/results.asp?co...name=&psize=25


    There is common stock ownership between the two universities.

    The program covers anywhere from an associates degree to a doctorate via publication. Dual degree and transcripts are awarded. Professors from both schools intervene in the education of the student but the actual program is run by SCU since they are more focused towards global education.
     
  13. laferney

    laferney Member

    How does UCN agreement make degree vaild here?

    What does this mean? Does this mean if one obtained the SCU doctorate in Psychology he could be awarded a degree also from UCN in Nicaragua which would be seen by NACES as equivelent to a RA doctorate in the USA? How is their agreement with UCN in Nicaragua relevent to making their doctoral degree acceptable in the United States?
    I have e-mailed CONESUP to ask why the doctoral degree is not listed. I will post when /if received.
    Interesting SCU offered to let me do the PHD program without payment and then have it evaluated after the degree was received -then pay. I declined since NACES and AACRAO have already said it's not equivelent and would not want to spend all this time and effort to find out the degree won't be accepted.
     
  14. bullet

    bullet New Member

    Locked and Loaded

    What this means is SCU runs the program and you get the degree from the Nicaraguan University which would over the GAAP portion of it, all SCU is doing by awarding the degree is double verifying that indeed you completed the program.

    On the other hand you probably misread the letter since no University in their right mind would let you do a degree , evaluate it and then pay. What´s in it for the University?????? If you have that offer in writing PM me a copy, I will ask for my own "pay me later" deal, since Nicaragua is GAAP.

    :eek:

    PS I think it´s very irresponsible for NACES or AACRAO to blanket reject what they don´t have in their hands. They should first have all of the documents and then issue an evaluation, not the other way around !
     
  15. laferney

    laferney Member

    It's true they did make me that offer. You can contact them if interested. I didn't misinterpret that- I engaged them and they were gracious in trying to allay my resistance to enroll given the info on their lack of accreditation or listing of the doctorate with CONESUP. Secondly, don't be too hard on
    NACES and AACRAO. They were gracious to repond to my questions in a rapid manner. NACES response is prefixed with "therefore, after this initial research"
    AS for:

    They should first have all of the documents and then issue an evaluation, not the other way around !

    It was not a degree evaluation, but a response to a request for info.
    The Costa Rican embassy itsself states"You will be able to notice that “Universidad Cristiana del Sur” appears on
    that list, however only Bachelor’s and Licenciate degrees appear there inthe areas of law, business administration, and theology.
    I have no knowledge why the doctorate is not listed."
    They then speculate why. They don't know why a university in their own country doesn't list the doctoral program when offered abroad.
    SCR made no statements in their response to suggest NACES was wrong -only that what is not defined as against the law is considered legal.
    I could not find that the Nicaraguan university has a Ph.D program in Psychology so how can they award a PH.D in this discipline?
    Hopefully CONESUP will clear this -if they write and say the doctoral program is approved and will be put on the Ministry of Education's list then I'm sure NACES or AACRAO would say it's GAAP. But until then I doubt it.
     
  16. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Laferney, UCN doesn't offer a PhD in psychology. Futhermore, they have no offerings in psychology whatsoever, not even at the undergraduate level.

    These are the only degrees it can legally confer (as authorized by CNU, an organ similar in scope to Conesup):

    http://www.ucn.edu.ni/informacion/carreras.html

    I suspect they think Gringos are muy, muy tontos. Well, not all of them :D
     
  17. bullet

    bullet New Member

    ja ja

    JLV, you are wrong, you need to check with the UCN to see what they offer a simple glance on the website is not checking.
     
  18. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    OK, these are (again) the only degrees UCN is permitted to confer by law (according to the official government institution, the Consejo Nacional de Universidades, the Nicaraguan equivalent of Conesup). As you'll see, if you understand basic Spanish, this UCN is not allowed to offer any PhD degree (other than doctoral degrees in medicine and veterinary), and they can't even confer psychology degrees of any type, let alone PhD's, which is exactly what I stated this morning.

    http://www.cnu.edu.ni/documentacion/CNU%20(bisagra)%2020-01-06.pdf

    I am sure you don't want Mr. Laferney here to invest his time and money in what appears to be a worthless piece of paper with no value in Nicaragua, Costa Rica or, for that matter, the United States. ;)
     
  19. bullet

    bullet New Member

    answer stays the same

    JLV,

    My answer stays the same...........you need to read the law of Higher Education in Nicaragua, period. After you read it, you need to understand it and then apply it. In case you didn´t know, which is obvious you didn´t, State Universities get 7% of the GDP, which private universities don´t , so in exchange for not getting any $$$$$$$$ the creation of the LAW OF AUTONOMY OF PRIVATE HIGHER EDUCATION...........all UCN needs to do is:

    1) Sit in Session.
    2) Approve the program.
    3) Send a letter to CNU and INFORM them of the approval.
    4) File the Course Program with CNU.

    ebitty, ebitty, ebitty..................THATS ALL FOLKS.

    Surley with BASIC SPANISH you knew that, right????????
     
  20. bullet

    bullet New Member

    answer stays the same

    JLV,

    My answer stays the same...........you need to read the law of Higher Education in Nicaragua, period. After you read it, you need to understand it and then apply it. In case you didn´t know, which is obvious you didn´t, State Universities get 7% of the GDP, which private universities don´t , so in exchange for not getting any $$$$$$$$ the creation of the LAW OF AUTONOMY OF PRIVATE HIGHER EDUCATION...........all UCN needs to do is:

    1) Sit in Session.
    2) Approve the program.
    3) Send a letter to CNU and INFORM them of the approval.
    4) File the Course Program with CNU.

    ebitty, ebitty, ebitty..................THATS ALL FOLKS.

    Surley with BASIC SPANISH you knew that, right????????

    ps: Laferny can go where he wants...........I am sticking up for the educational systems of this region, thats all !
     

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