Ukrainian-American Liberal Arts Institute “Wisconsin International University (USA) ?

While I clearly see your points and they are valid.

I also think that there will be more positive evaluations of the State Format Degrees then lets say misses or negative.
Their accreditation in first glance appears to be same as RA accreditation as they only offer business degrees of a small private university in USA that is RA.

In reality this is not DL, they do offer many classes by DL but the school requires residency in Ukraine.
Indeed Ukranian curency in comparison to USD is very law so today $$$ makes impact. But one will need accommodations to reside in Ukraine and that costs money, what about income?

So its in reality much more then 1800 USD. They State Format degrees are not offered by DL, some classes from the degree program are available by DL under tutelage of the school professor/instructor.
Again I understand that the State Format degrees only are RA equivalent.

 

My guess is, most NACES members would accept a genuine state-format degree at face value. Most would not know or care about unrecognized BBA/MBA. Said BBA/MBA degrees, while quite possibly resulting from real education process, are very unlikely to be recognized as RA-equivalent

I would not recommend WIUU on the basis of the terrible name alone, and because as an alumnus you'd have to forever explain the fact it has nothing to do with Wisconsin whatsoever. Prof. Romanovsykj, forheavenssake, please change the darned name!!!

Also, if you're Ukrainian, a degree from a blatantly non-public university marks you as "not smart enough to win admission to any of the myriad government universities".

 

No it's not. They offer their own unrecognized "international" BBA/MBAs, as well as their own, recognized degrees I Management and International Business.

To be fair, Ukraine does not accredit degrees in "Business Administration", so a few legitimate MBA programs that exist now are "private training" certificates, not unlike what WIUU offers. Of course, other providers do not boast a fraudulent link to the state of Wisconsin right in their name, so there's that. Also, I feel the country will find a way to accredit MBAs in die course, and we'll see if this outfit will make the grade. In any case, Kyiv Mohyla University and Ukrainian Catholic University, among others, have much stronger offerings.

 

Stanislav, why do you think their State Accredited Degrees with National State Format diplomas are not RA equivalent?

I agree about the International their own format degrees are a different category but the B&M State degrees I think are RA equivalent.

And that what the German database is suggesting as well.
To make sure the degree awarded is of the State format.

 

Johan,
For the remark of second level of accreditation, and what it means.
The first level is the Accreditation Council, (like CHEA,USDE) - not accrediting universities or programs directly but accredits accreditation agencies.
The accredited agencies are what is meant by the the second level:
The second level of the German accreditation system consists of the accreditation agencies

 

Using Google translate

Institution Type status unclear
Status H +/-
comment
The process of accreditation is progressing continuously, so anabin not always able to detect the state in all its details. Direct evidence of a recognized university degree is the "diploma by state format". When a regular "diploma by state format" presented by an in anabin marked even as H + or H +/- university, that would be a reason

 

From the Anabin web site

Very free translation from German:

H+ means that the institution in question is recognized as a university in the country where it’s located and is considered a [recognized] university also in Germany. H- means that the institution lacks recognition/accreditation in the country of origin and/or is not considered a [recognized/accredited] university in Germany. H+/H- is used for institutions about which no definite statement can be made .This is for example the case when certain programs are at the tertiary level while others with respect to length and level aren’t or are unaccredited. [It can also be the case that Anabin simply doesn’t have sufficient information about the status of a given institution]. In such cases, a case-by-case evaluation is necessary. Important information can be found under “Kommentar zum Institutionstypus”.

I use Anabin for reference almost on a daily basis, and as I wrote in the post above, it’s a good source of information. However, what’s in there is the German take on things and qualifications from universities marked with either H+, H- or H+/H- in Anabin may be evaluated differently by governmental agencies, organizations and universities in other countries. As any database, it’s not necessarily accurate either: for instance, if you have a look at the list of universities in Sweden, you’ll see that the World Maritime University is an H+ (state recognized) university according to Anabin. This is not correct: WMU is not part of the higher education system of Sweden and is not recognized by the Swedish Ministry of Education. As it happens, it doesn’t belong to the higher education system of any country, it was established by the International Maritime Organization (United Nations) and has recently applied for or even received accreditation from a recognized accrediting agency in Germany

 

WIUU - Ukraine - international degrees that are Foundation for International Business Administration Accreditation - FIBAA accredited are considered accredited degrees.
FIBAA is recognized accrediting agency of business programs. FIBAA - a German, Austrian, Swiss Accrediting body

The State degrees from Ukrain are RA equivalent
Foundation for International Business Administration Accreditation. FIBAA may not be equivalent to RA but it is accredited by recognized agency.

Issued in Ukraine by university that is recognized in its own state and accredited there.

I was born in Ukraine in my town German language was the foreign language one was learning in school. Obviously Russian and Ukrainian were thought from first grade then German or English. My grand parents born under Austrian monarchy rule.
It was after all from 1867 to 1918 under Austrian monarchy, Austro Hungerian Empire at one time or Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, by name Dual Monarchy, German Österreich-Ungarn, and today Ukraine is trying to join the European Union.

Well Kiyev wasn't do.

FIBAA is accredited by accreditation council of Germany. Its like AACSB
programmatic accreditation.


Largest cities of the dual monarchy
Data: census in 1910[29]

Austrian Empire

Rank Current English name Contemporary official name[30] Other Present-day country Population
1. Vienna Wien Bécs, Beč Austria 2,083,630 (city without the suburb 1,481,970)
2. Prague Praha Prag Czech Republic 668,000 (city without the suburb 223,741)
3. Trieste Triest, Trst Italy 229,510
4. Lviv Львів Lwów, Lemberg Ukraine 206,113
5. Kraków Krakau Poland 151,886
6. Graz Gradec Austria 151,781
7. Brno Brünn Czech Republic 125,737
8. Chernivtsi Чернівці Cernăuți, Czernowitz Ukraine 87,100
9. Plzeň Pilsen Czech Republic 80,343
10. Linz Linec Austria 67,817

 

Well, I've been working in international admissions and credential evaluation for over 15 years now, and when an unaccredited US university relocates to Ukraine (and Estonia, China etc) and receives state accreditation for some but not all of its programs plus additional accreditation from a recognized agency in Germany, I get interested. This case is almost as interesting as the American University for Humanities in the Republic of Georgia, a recognized university that turned out to be an incarnation of the American University of Hawai'i.

 

I believe we're in agreement here. State format degrees should be RA-equivalent. I thought that by saying "offer business degrees of a small private university in USA that is RA" you meant that "international" degrees are RA, which they are not.

 

Yes. I think an honest effort to offer American-style programs is welcome on Ukrainian soil. This effort is by no means top-tier, but probably has value. Of course, NaU-KMA and UCU do essentially the same thing on grander scale and better, but it's different enough to be interesting.
Of course, one thing their Estonian counterpart did right was ditching WIU connection and name. WIUU should do it as well. There are hordes of schools in different countries, of various standing, by the name of "American University of <place>". This school fits the mold perfectly and should just rename itself "American University of Kyiv", or "Ukrainian-American University of Business", or "Concordia University of Kyiv", or some such. That'll be the great service to students, and will reflect their mission much better.

 

Let's also remember that "RA equivalent" is not the same as "RA." And having a degree considered to be RA equivalent by a degree evaluator does not mean that an employer or educational institution will necessarily accept that degree.

A university might be a safer bet. But private employers are hit and miss in what they accept and why. There are some employers who will scoff at a degree from the University of Phoenix, even though they are RA. And there are employers who are safe havens for people with degrees from known mills, which are absolutely not RA equivalent.

So getting a degree evaluation and having it favorably view your degree is good and it's important and it gives you a defense if anyone ever directly challenged the legitimacy of your degree. But it's also only a piece of the puzzle. And while degrees from many countries may be considered RA equivalent the reality is that the perception among employers might not be so kind. I have a colleague who, for example, earned a completely legitimate bachelors and masters degree from a university in Ethiopia and struggled to find an employer willing to accept the degree. The perception among employers he interviewed with was that Ethiopia had a very poor infrastructure and thus had no authority to actually teach engineering, let alone confer engineering degrees. Fortunately, our company wasn't so short-sighted. But the first thing he did was use our tuition assistance to earn a second M.Eng. from a U.S. university (and a SUNY school) to protect himself for future job searches.

 

Fair points. The degree from, ugh, UALAI-WIU(USA)inU and, eg., my (or, even closer, my wife's since hers is in Management) degree from, ack! - NTUU-KPI may be both RA-equivalent and may look exactly the same (as "state format" diplomas are all produced on same plastic blanks by the same company that won the state contract, probably by bribing someone. That may change in future). But are they of the same standing? I'd argue not. Also, in practice, a diploma from some other obscure private school may fare better by not carrying affiliation with a questionable (to say the least) USA entity. Well, maybe not the International University of Personnel Management, a Ukrainian for-profit behemoth known for promoting anti-Semitism and giving David Duke his "doctorate".

Nevertheless, if the diploma is RA or RA-equivalent (or NA for that matter), that assures a certain level of utility.

 

In some cases if one is utilizing a foreign degree in USA it can't hurt if a one is adding an extra line about the university.
I seen lines like XYZ is ranked among top 5 universities in India.
So now you add in addition to degree equivalent to the one granted / earned in the US RA University also a ranking.
After all there is a difference and tier in the education providers.
MIT is not the same as TESU or Capella right?

In this case there is nothing to brag about, but a simple line of stating a fact such as this is a B&M university with degree programs on campus that is licensed and accredited by ministry of education in its country, or something like that.

I seen one liners such as the XYZ offers more than 500 qualifications over the whole range of industry sectors through 8500 colleges and training providers in 81 countries worldwide. Two million people every year start XYZ qualifications.
a url can be provided.

I agree that name change is desired .
Ukrainian American Institute of Higher Education.

 

I beg to differ. Speaking from an HR standpoint, "adding an extra line" to a resume often can be harmful. I'd say it's particularly harmful when you try to upsell a degree from a school I've never heard of.

I have a slight pet peeve when it comes to businesses that include adjectives in the business name that should be implied (e.g. "Reliable Taxi") and "accredited university" should be added to my list. Having a degree from an accredited school is not an "extra" it should be implied. You don't score points with HR by saying "oh, by the way, this school is accredited!" We expect your degree to be accredited. Or, more accurately, we expect it to be legitimate and accreditation is simply the easiest way for us to evaluate that.

Adding a line that your school is licensed, accredited, approved or just generally "legitimate" would be an immediate red flag for me. It would be like if the first line of your cover letter said "I am absolutely not a sex offender." That may be factually true. And, perhaps you simply want to reassure me that you are not the registered sex offender who shares that name. But it would be a weird thing to include in your introduction. It would be similar in the case of what you suggest.

If you felt the need to mention anything about an international school, I'd say the place would be the cover letter and could be captured simply by saying a school is a "state" or "provincial" university (if it is indeed public). Otherwise, statements like what you are suggesting are equivalent to drawing a large red circle around a zit and slapping a neon post-it note to the side of your face that says "pay no attention to this pimple."

 

'"I might be in a similar position someday and I've imagined that what I would do is get my degree equivalency documented through a standard source and bring the report to interviews, just in case I'm asked about it. I can then pull out the report and simply say "They're equivalent." Do you think that's a better approach?

 

Actually this worked for my friend David.
David applied on line for an engineer position with major telco provider, he indicated on line since there was no other option that he has Maters of engineering from City and Gilds.
What he really had was MCGI and NACES member service report that it is equivalent to US Masters of Engineering degree.
Long story short, he was made an offer contingent he passes the background check.
He had to provide W2 tax forms for last 10 years supporting his employment history etc, also educational credentials, diplomas etc.
The company doing background checking requested Masters Degree copy of diploma, he provided his MCGI certificate, they escalated HR requested again Masters degree , he sent NACES report stating that MCGI in UK is equivalent to USMasters degree.
That was sufficient.
He is working there going on his 5th year, with great performance reviews.

 

In general I agree with your comments. Yes cover letter is a better way.
And the addition of line is possibly more suited for electronic profiles on line - LinkedIn site.
In my opinion in this case because of some negative information on WIU floating on the net, adding a link to and also a one line that WIUU is actually may do more help then harm.

I also see such done on sites like LinkedIn, were a link and a few words can help.
There is noting deceptive about it.

 

I think having the degree evaluation on hand is a good idea, in general.

But I would also be really surprised if anyone ever challenged it at an interview. You're much more likely to get questions like "wow, so what brought you to the Ukraine?" Or "how long did you spend there?" More than "Ukrainian degree? how do I know it's even legit?"

I get resumes every day from people who were educated around the world. And those who follow the standard resume format list their foreign degrees exactly as you would a US degree. No one says "X University, a Spanish state university that has been evaluated as equivalent to a regionally accredited institution" for the same reason no one says "Colorado Technical University, a regionally accredited school founded in 1962 (or whenever it was founded)".

Many employers will frankly never ask. And those that do are likely just going to ask for the evaluation because they have a policy on accreditation. In that sense, they are asking from the same position as employers who want to see your transcripts. Companies that do this aren't accusing you of lying they distrust everyone equally.

In short, if the company doesn't know to ask for the evaluation it's unlikely that you handing it to them is going to mean anything. If they know to ask for it then it's good to have it in hand already.

 

neuhaus: "Adding a line that your school is licensed, accredited, approved or just generally "legitimate" would be an immediate red flag for me."

John: During the 9 years we did marketing for the Heriot-Watt University MBA in the US (not exactly a household word), we found it beneficial to supply a list of the 70+ corporations (from the Fortune 100 list) who had accepted the degree. Probably more helpful in recruiting students than in the students use of the degree on resumes, etc.