UIW online DBA

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Hemgs, Apr 12, 2017.

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  1. Hemgs

    Hemgs New Member

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    I wanted to get opinions on the UIW University of the Incarnate Word in San Antonio TX online DBA program. It appears to be a new program. I'm in my early 30's but would like to teach at a small private college or a small state school. I'm thinking that I would use this to teach as an adjunct/lecturer when I semi retire from my career in financial services. Is this program have enough merit to help me achieve this goal? Looks like it is RA, but no business school accreditations for the DBA program yet.

    I also would like to keep the door open to teach full time, would a degree like this eliminate that option or make it very unlikely? I like to have options.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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    If your long term goal is a full time faculty position -- and that's the only sort that could justify the time and expense of doctoral work, adjunct gigs definitely don't -- then you'll want to maximize your later opportunity by going to the best regarded school that you can.
     
  3. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

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    Teaching jobs are impossible to get, I taught a trade program at a small CC and we had adjuncts with Ph.Ds. from UT, USC, U Penn and so on. So I doubt a DBA is going to get you there. 45K Doctoral degrees are handed out a year..how many jobs do you think open up?
     
  4. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

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    The tuition looks really good for Military and affiliated.

    Military Discounts (Classroom & Online)
    (Applies to Active Duty within the United States military services for undergraduate or graduate tuition.)
    $250 per hour Number of Credits Total Tuition
    One course per term 3 credit $750
    Two courses per term 6 credit $1,500
    Students are required to present their valid identification or current military identification along with any Tuition Assistance Forms to the Business Office within the specified dated as published by the University course schedule. Students have ten days from the first day of classes to submit a valid identification, application and/or TA form(s) to qualify for the discount. Miltary discounts do not apply to tuition for doctoral programs.
    Veterans Discounts (Classroom & Online)

    (Applies to United States Military Veterans, Active Duty Military Dependents,and DoD employees for undergraduate or graduate tuition.)
    $275 per hour Number of Credits Total Tuition
    One course per term 3 credits $825
    Two courses per term 6 credits $1,650
     
  5. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

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    Is it about the school or individual? I know someone graduated from UIW with a Bachelor in Business Management. He claimed that he has 8 years experience part-time dealership consultant for more than 8 years where his father is a CFO of the company. Now, after graduation, he is working at Chick-fil-A.... https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-collins-394247112/
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Yet there are full-time professors with degrees from Nova, Northcentral, Capella, Argosy. Some on this very forum.

    It all depends on the individual. If a candidate is competitive, a degree from UIW would serve nicely for a position at a small college or CC.
    Did you consider foreign degrees? Leicester and Grenoble have AACSB-accredited programs; I think at least Grenoble charges tuition comparable to UIW. Also, Heriot Watt University DBA is not AACSB, but the school is a reasonably well-regarded Scottish university, and tuition is very reasonable.
     
  7. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    Wow, I did the impossible! (And I'm not even all that talented or scholarly)
     
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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    As they say in real estate; location, location, location.

    I teach for 3 different RA schools in the Boston area, and the adjunct ranks aren't overflowing with doctoral holders at all, never mind from prestigious schools.
     
  9. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    Academic jobs are very doable...if you do academic things. Business is a field in which there's much higher demand than other disciplines such as sociology or history, and as a result, it typically pays a lot better. Some of my colleagues make $170K plus to teach a 3/3 schedule; the average in my department, including instructors, lecturers, professors, is $100 to $120K.

    Getting into business academia is not just about getting the right degree credential (though that helps), it's about showing the propensity to do scholarly research. A person with an online DBA from UIW, Creighton, Kennesaw State, Liverpool, Heriot-Watt is going to have a very good shot at landing a gig somewhere if they're presenting research at conferences and getting to know people in academia in their chosen field. If you get a DBA from Grenoble and don't know anyone and just start scatter-shotting resumes everywhere, you can't expect to get a tenure track or otherwise full time job. But if you have that same DBA and two peer-reviewed publications, both of which were presented at conferences in your chosen field and co-authored with academics at accredited universities, and you otherwise are a decent interview and are willing to keep applying for every job that comes up, you'll almost certainly land somewhere. It also helps to have some adjuncting experience (but that's probably not as important as the pubs). You could also volunteer to review articles for a peer-reviewed publication. There are a lot of ways of learning how to play the academic game.

    You might be surprised how many people directing academic conferences are happy to have professionals come and present and how many academics would be glad to collaborate with a professional. Half of my pubs have been in conjunction with nonacademic professionals.

    All this requires is doing your due diligence and finding out about the conferences in your chosen fields, then contacting professors and expressing an interest in collaborating on research. Expect to get a lot of unanswered emails, but also expect to get some interest. That's how you get your start: get known in your field--it's really not all that hard, just requires sticking to a plan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2017
  10. Hemgs

    Hemgs New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. Should I be concerned that its not AACSB certified? The school is RA and this is a new program. They are graduating their first class this year, but they plan to get the ACBSP certification like they have with their undergrad and MBA program. Is that sufficient?

    This program is online or in person, so I can do either or and I'm not far from San Antonio, so that is a major reason for me picking it. Plus I like the idea of a brick and morter school. Should the lack of AACSB certifications be a deterrent, or as long as I publish some work I would stand a chance?

    I've read that it's next to impossible to teach at a AACSB school without a AACSB degree, is that true or can that be offset with an impressive resume and list of published work?
     
  11. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    First point: There are thousands of people teaching at AACSB schools as instructors and lecturers who not only don't have an AACSB doctorate, but no doctorate at all, they are masters-only. Of course, that's obvious, but still, it's true. My school recently hired a masters-only person to teach accounting as a lecturer at $90K a year.

    Second point: Is AACSB or bust a good perspective? Incarnate Word is not accredited by the AACSB, they're ACBSP. If they're good enough for you to pursue for a doctorate, would they be the type of school in which you'd be interested in teaching? Probably so I'd guess. If so, then don't worry so much about the AACSB doctorate, because while the doors to UT Austin or Texas A&M would probably be forever closed, so what? They're also closed to the vast majority of us in academia who aren't major players in our field or Ivy/Ivy-equivalent PhD graduates. That said, Bruce Bellner from Ohio State has a DBA from Heriot-Watt, so evidently it can be done.

    Third point: As I said above and as you asked, it's more about the pubs and the exposure than the degree. That said, it's very unlikely that either an AACSB or ACBSP school is going to be throwing tenure track or FT offers at a person with a doctorate from a primarily distance school such as UoP (though it's not impossible), but UIW is a different animal, were I on a search committee I wouldn't bat an eye at a vita with UIW at the top of their degree list. So pursuing the pubs and the exposure, getting known by academics in the region in which you wish to work will very possibly get you there, in conjunction with a degree from a solid school such as UIW.
     
  12. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

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    So now according to all of you guys there is a no need for doctorates and professors/instructors in higher education are in massive demand. Lol

    That's why adjunct positions at Blinn Jr College yield about 300-500 resumes, most with Ph.Ds. Full-time positions can reach into the thousands of applicants. This is at a small Community College in the middle of nowhere.

    https://www.theguardian.com/higher-education-network/blog/2014/may/23/so-many-phd-students-so-few-jobs

    55. There are too many PhDs. - 100 Reasons NOT to Go to Graduate School

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/04/new-data-show-tightening-phd-job-market-across-disciplines

    The disposable academic | The Economist

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/content/too-many-phds-not-enough-tenured-positions


    I say all of this not to stop OP from working on a DBA, but to help him understand that his chances are slim. You guys need to stop pretending otherwise, is it impossible? No, of course not.

    FTF offers good advice on publications and research...with this degree this is the path you will need to take. Or just put the same amount of effort in at a bigger name school.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2017
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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    I second this emotion.
     
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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    I personally never said that, but I did say that a lot depends on the location, which I still firmly believe. I teach for 2 two-year schools (one of which was recently approved to offer Bachelor's degrees) and a 4-year school. All of the adjuncts I work with except for one are Master's level.

    Many schools like practitioner faculty, and in some fields (such as Criminal Justice), it's like unicorn hunting to find someone doctorally-qualified who also works in the field.
     
  15. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    I really don't think his chances are slim if he gets known in the field, such as you (and I) say: publishing, presenting at conferences, collaborating with academics on said pubs, reviewing submissions to pubs as a volunteer article reviewer, etc. etc.

    Adjunct positions are different from full time positions. It's probably harder to get one as a pure outsider--no kidding! I don't give one holler in hell about Blinn College and their adjunct position. Does not reflect the reality out here which I darned well know. This is something I have experience with, I've sat on search committees for faculty hires. Don't LOL me, I know this stuff, I teach FT at an AACSB biz school and have for almost a decade. My university with 20K+ students that's big enough to place our football team in bowl games recently posted for a business law prof and we got 15 qualified applications. A couple years before we posted an ad for the accounting lecturer position that I referenced and we got about 10. Those are cold, hard facts, I don't care what manure the Chronicle of Higher Ed or Inside Higher Ed spins into articles, they're full of it.

    The OP, should he do what we suggested, will have FAR MORE than a slim chance. Just saying, and I know what the heck I'm talking about.
     
  16. b4cz28

    b4cz28 New Member

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    Wait...is Nova in the same boat as NC, Argosy and Capella?
     
  17. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Certainly not in the same boat as " UT, USC, U Penn and so on" (btw, "UT?" it stands for "University of Toronto" over here, a top school in this little pond. Which UT did you mean?). Nova could be better for faculty search by being AACSB, but has higher profile for "nontraditional" programs outside of South Florida - a turn-off for many academics.
     
  18. Hemgs

    Hemgs New Member

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    Thanks again everyone. Part of the reason I like this program is that I could talk a face to face class at a brick and morter school that has an actual campus or I could also complete it all online, so it's kind of a best case for me.

    This seems to be a better option than capella, pheonix or the other typical online schools. I understand that I would have to build a good resume and publications in order to be considered, so I guess I was just trying to make sure this degree wouldn't be useless, even if I have the other boxes checked. I appreciate the feedback.
     
  19. Hemgs

    Hemgs New Member

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    This is exactly the feedback I was looking for. I understand nothing will be handed to me. It seems like UIW is probably one of my best online options. I'm not really concerned with teaching at UT or A&M. A gig at UIW or even a smaller private school would be ideal for me. I just wanted to make sure that there was no chance of getting in with a UIW degree. I didnt want to spend the time or money to later find out its next to impossible even if I publish or had great industry experience I feel like pheonix or Capella would be next to impossible even with the pubs, which is why I didn't want to consider them. It appears that UIW would put me in a much better position than the typical distance university's. That's basically what I was looking for.
     
  20. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Member

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    There's a fellow at UT Austin who has a doctorate from a school like UoP, Capella or Walden, someone brought him up here a few months back. But the dude's incredible, some kind of force of nature and his credentials are so extraordinary otherwise that he made it in the Big Time. So unless that's you, I'd definitely want to go B&M. There are some people at ACBSP-type business schools with Northcentral doctorates (including a prof from UIW), so I guess that can work also, but still, I'd want the traditional B&M from a known university with roots, all else being equal. If you want to work in Texas or surrounding states, can't imagine there'd be a serious issue with UIW.

    Again, some schools will lock you out because they want AACSB doctorates among their faculty and that's that. But not all schools are that way, most smaller colleges and ACBSP schools do not make that sine qua non, and for certain high demand fields like accounting, even some AACSB universities have stopped making it a requirement, often advertising for "AACSB or equivalent doctorate holders", or making AACSB a preference rather than a requirement. If you were pursuing a job in sociology, I'd say forget it unless you had a traditional PhD from a large university--but business is different.

    So long as you know what you're getting into and the doors that will be closed, go for it. But be certain to volunteer to review articles for a journal in your chosen field, then, having learned what it means to produce academic publications, present your research at conferences in your region, meet professors, let them know of your intentions, ask if they'd be interested in collaborating, ask if their departments need any adjuncting, find out if your local colleges need any adjuncting, stay at it, don't expect people to just jump all over you, takes time. One nice thing is the UIW program gives you the opportunity to fulfill some of your academic requirements via publications and conference presentations. DO THAT! This is not a process that happens all at once, it takes years. Took me five years to get the additional degree I needed (online, flagship B&M MBA added to traditional JD I already had), the adjuncting experience and the conference presentations under my belt before I finally got an offer in tenure track academia at a large university after applying for literally 100 jobs and getting turned down 99 times--luck or the very will of God was also probably involved. Still hard to believe I got here--but it was hard work, certainly not genius.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2017

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