Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Act

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by chrisjm18, May 30, 2023.

  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Biden, Cruz condemn Uganda law allowing death penalty for 'aggravated homosexuality'

    I know who won't be going back to Uganda. They won't get a penny of my money. I don't see what these stupid laws will achieve. As long as men and women continue to produce children, there will always be LGBTQ+ people. Even in KSA, where you can be beheaded, there are still gay people. I wish those clowns in Uganada would focus on building better infrastructure, reducing corruption, and alleviating poverty.
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This is a sad story. I assume it is an "us versus them" issue. "Us" means good "them" means evil. It feels good to believe one is good and beating evil. Minority populations are frequently singled out to be "them" evil types. This country went through many examples and still are. It's a mechanism especially popular in the Republican party right now and has been over the past few years.
    nosborne48 and chrisjm18 like this.
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think on this subject its widely misunderstood, even in the religious institutions.
    I formed my views and reshaped them multiple times.
    The understanding is that some religions advocate self control of persons actions and behaviors.
    Self control is the key, this means that religious laws givers acknowledged that people will have urge to act, be it because they like someones spouse or because they want
    someones money etc, or feel attracted physically to persons of same sex etc. In those religions its something one should control and not act upon it.
    Not confuse love to another person to actual act. Some may have more urge then others. US has separation between church and the state.
    Some of it made it to a law codices and laws of countries.
    Its not "us versus them" its all us.
    Non democratic countries see in the LGBTQ+ movement political danger that will lead to free society.
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    What I mean by that is using it for political posturing. For example, the Republican party was using anti gay rhetoric to raise lots of money until SCOTUS made gay marriage legal. Now the Republican party is using anti transsexual rhetoric to raise money and activate their base. I don't buy the idea that they are doing this for religious reasons. They might argue that way sometimes but it is just a cover.

    Now I'm not sure what is going on in Uganda is the same thing because I haven't read any articles on Uganda internal politics. I just assume it is the same thing, as I explicitly stated.
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And democratic ones, such as mine, use it to political advantage - photo-ops abound, so they dress appropriately for Pride Parades etc.

    Nothing to do with their beliefs. Just get the votes... It's not much better, this side or the other. Mousa, my ex-barber from Sudan, asked me one day "Why don't we just kill gays -- like we used to do in Africa?" That was when he became my ex-barber. Who let that guy in here?
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I wish the clowns here would do the same thing. All three are badly needed. In my home town, they build condos on top of condos - insane density - and the infrastructure (sewers, water) has a lot of pipes dating back to the 1850s (including lead). The whole mess is set to implode. We have many people living in tents - a lot of them with drug problems - rent and food are outpacing incomes...

    No country has a monopoly on clowns. Or tents, or used needles in a public park.
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    LOL! Now he didn't seem to be arguing religious beliefs there. It seems to be just ruthless "us versus them" thinking?
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah it does. But this attitude is really ingrained in many Muslim societies and I'm thinking clerics preach this stuff in a thundering "us vs. them" way, and it's picked up by the faithful accordingly. According to a survey, these are the worst places for LGTBQ+ travellers.

    1. Nigeria
    2. Saudi Arabia
    3. Malaysia
    4. Malawi
    5. Oman
    6. Jamaica
    7. Myanmar
    8, Qatar
    9. United Arab Emirates
    10. Yemen
    11. Zambia
    12. Tanzania
    13. Sudan (where my ex-barber, Mousa, a Muslim, was from)
    14. West Bank and Gaza
    15. Iran
    16. Uganda
    17. Maldives
    18. Morocco
    19. Egypt
    20. Algeria

    Whole thing here:

    As I said - looks like a predominance of principally Muslim countries. So "us vs. them" teaching by clerics, I'm thinking. And lawmakers draft horrific penalties to please both clerics (whom they fear) and voters (whom they need.) Sometimes, as in Iran and Afghanistan, the clerics ARE the lawmakers. Same sh*! as happens this side, only with clerics of a different faith preaching hate against LGBTQ etc. Part of the reason I like Atheism. No clerics - less problems.
    Last edited: May 30, 2023
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  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    "Us vs. Them" and "Good vs. Evil" are tactics those evil people use against us good people.
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  10. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure Uganada is now #1. The northern part of Nigeria is mostly Muslim, so the penalty for homosexuality conduct in that part of the country could include the penalty.

    Jamaica is largely a hypocritical country when it comes to LGBTQ. I guess we could say that for all these other African countries that claim that homosexuality isn't African values. Haha!
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    ;) Yes, us good people versus them evil people (really mostly poorly informed people)
  12. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    1. Nigeria - been here
    6. Jamaica - born and raised here
    9. United Arab Emirates - plan to celebrate my next birthday here (if life is spared)
    16. Uganda - been here

    I'm also going home to Jamaica in a few weeks. I haven't been back in 10 years... since I fled :(
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I maybe have a faint memory floating around in my brain that you might be of the LGBTQ+ persuasion? If so that must have been tough growing up in Jamaica? I saw Chasten Buttigieg (Pete Buttigieg's husband) on TV the other day. He had loving parents and all but still wished that his parents had told him that they would love him no matter what when he was growing up.

    When folks that are LGBTQ+ are growing up is the critical time where most damage is done to folks in close minded bad communities. They can grow up having all kinds of issues that can be difficult to deal with. This is my deep concern with the Uganda law and the Republican party using LGBTQ+ as political punching bags. :(
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  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    it is certainly a deep concern, Bill. The other major concern is, of course, that some will lose their lives - in Uganda by penalty of law and in the US by some uneducated, rabidly-religious LGBTQ+ hater with a Colt .50 cal. or worse, an AR-15. And yes, likely Republican.

    I have a young man in the family, who is gay - one of my grandsons. As far as I know, "Gay" has never been a problem for him - certainly not at home or anywhere else, that I've been told of. I'm thinking it might have been a problem, had he continued at Catholic schools, but he didn't. For completely unrelated reasons, he transferred to public schools during his early primary years.

    I'm certainly glad he had HIS parents -- and not MINE. I'm dead sure that had I been gay, I would have had a MUCH worse time growing up than I did -and it was bad enough as it was. Then again, that was in the 1950s and early 60s. Times have changed -and I'm very glad of that for my grandson = and proud of him and his parents.
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I saw Wanda Sykes doing a standup comedy routine on Netflix called "I'm an Entertainer". She covered some of the problems she had growing up. She wasn't interested in men but had sex with men at first because she didn't know better. This was where she used the line that she was just entertaining her sex partners but wasn't really enjoying the experience herself because "I'm an entertainer!".

    An even better routine that is right on this topic for most of her standup routine was also on Netflix. The comedian is an Australian named Hannah Gadsby. The specific routine is titled Nanette. She said she was born and raised in Tasmania. She stated that LGBTQ+ were hated and looked down upon there when she was growing up. So, she learned to hate herself. She is a great story teller and the routine was extremely hilarious while also being a real tear jerker, at least for me. I highly recommend her and Nanette in particular.
    Last edited: May 31, 2023
  16. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Yes, it was tough growing up in Jamaica. The antigay sentiments are widespread, especially through Dancehall music. However, the hate is meted out from all cross sections of society, including the church. So, Jamaicans grow up learning to hate gays (particularly gay males). Many don't have a problem embracing lesbians.

    Anyway, even though I was a police officer (my dream career), it didn't save me from discrimination and a hostile work environment. While I experienced no physical harm, I was intimidated by my colleagues. When it was too much, I left on departmental leave and subsequently resigned from the U.S.

    The journey in the U.S. wasn't easy. When I applied for asylum, the asylum officer didn't find my story plausible since Jamaicans, including the police, are known to use physical force against LGBTQ+ people. In my case, I had not been physically hurt, which is not a requirement to demonstrate a case for "fear of future persecution." Nonetheless, my case was referred to the immigration court. Thankfully, I received work authorization 6 months after I had applied for asylum because the case dragged on for about 3 years. After a delayed process, I had my day in court, where my attorney presented my case, and the Department of Homeland Security attorney presented theirs. A week later, I was granted asylum by the immigration judge. DHS did not appeal. I then became a permanent resident (green card holder) and eventually a U.S. citizen.

    It's sad that I had to leave the country I love because of who I am. I have embraced the U.S. as my second home. Despite everything that happened, Jamaica will always be my first love <3

    Here is an article that shared a snippet of my experience. I made the front page of the Jamaica Observer:

    While I like the article, I don't like the headline. But you know the media has to go low to grab the readers' attention... SMH!
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Thank you for sharing your very impressive story. It was a very positive article printed in the Jamaica Observer. I hope that is a sign that perhaps things are moving in the correct direction in Jamaica?

    I wish you great success and a wonderful life here in your second home country!
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  18. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Here's an article about the Uganda "kill the gays" law. It discusses in part the fact that there were Americans that pushed the Uganda government to pass this law. They are also pushing other governments in Africa to pass such disgusting laws.

    I really don't understand why anyone would do this kind of thing. How could they hate gays so bad? I thought I might try to do a little Google search.

    My assumption was that perhaps it means that the person with homophobia is suppressing their own homosexuality. The article does mention that as something that does occur sometimes.
  19. Asymptote

    Asymptote Active Member

    This whole thread is interesting. Lot of emotion here.

    But let’s think outside the typical contemporary Western rights-based sentimentality for a few minutes and consider the possibility (and I stress possibility) that something else is going on. And that something else is working splendidly, since no one is talking about it.

    Geopolitics and the manipulation of public opinion.

    We all do realize, I hope, that Uganda is on the front line, the fault line, of the 21st century version of the “Scramble for Africa” between the US and China, right?

    Just a little over 10 years ago there was that strange campaign “KONY 2012” to get Uganda on people’s radar in a failed attempt to garner support to get boots on the ground. Lots of suburban soccer moms were clutching pearls over that one on Facebook.

    It is possible that this latest thing is just that - the latest thing - to get folks willing to support some AFRICOM action over there.

    So why would anyone from America work to get a law like this passed over there, if that is even true? Perhaps they were dupes and agents of empire, whose strings have been pulled by the same production house that brought you KONY 2012 and probably also that 2012 short movie they pretended caused the Benghazi attacks.

    It’s an old playbook, operationalizing the Hegelian dialectic. Create a problem, infuse a solution, reap the rewards.

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