Trouble Choosing A Program

Hi everyone,

I am a licensed counselor and am looking to pursue a doctoral degree for professional development reasons. My top three choices are:

1. U Cumberlands PhD in Counselor Supervision and Education
2. Regent University PhD Counseling & Psychological Studies
3. Liberty University EdD Community Care & Counseling-Traumatology

The degree that most interests me content wise is Liberty University. I specialize in trauma and have various certifications, so I feel that the concentration is the most interesting of them all. However, I have heard really mixed things about Liberty like them being a diploma mill, not being supportive to students, getting poor grades because quizzes are computerized etc. Also, not loving the idea of incorporating the Bible into all of my graduate work.

UCumberlands is a CACREP-accredited program and is the cheapest of all 3, which I really like, however it is 66 credits whereas the other two are 51. I plan on taking one class per semester so this is a bit discouraging. Also, the clinical concentration is less interesting to me.

Regent seems super supportive and hands-on. They make their students feel as though they are on campus students, but is the most expensive of them all.

I really can’t make a decision and was hoping for someone’s input. Thanks so much!

 

Welcome to DI.

I am a Ph.D. in Criminal Justice student al Liberty. I will commence my dissertation on May 11th.

Liberty also has a Ph.D. in CES that CACREP accredited, but it is not fully online. There are a few required intensives. I think most of the issues at Liberty surround the leadership (i.e., the president). Trust me, a lot of students could do without Falwell, Jr. as the president. I have had a few issues with the computerized tests being mismarked. A simple email to the professors is what it takes for your grade to be adjusted. Also, quizzes are few in the doctoral programs. The emphasis is research and writing, and discussion posts for interaction purposes (per ED, I believe).

As far as support goes, some professors are more supportive than others. I have a responsive program director and chair of doctoral programs who are willing to address our concerns. Liberty is the first school I have ever had to incorporate a Christian worldview. While I am a Christian, I am not super religious, nor do I know the Bible well. My trick is to Google "Bible on murder," and I get many scriptures that I can use to integrate a biblical perspective. Except for assignments that require an entire Christian worldview section, most times, a scripture or two is good. The dissertation also does not require any Christian worldview. I had a Muslim classmate, and he quoted the Bible in his discussion posts.

The intend of my post is not to encourage you to choose Liberty. Instead, I just wanted to share my experience and perspective of the areas of concern that you highlighted. All the best with your decision.

 

Thank you so much for your response, and congratulations on being so close to graduating! So I live in New York and do not want to do any residency. I’m concerned because I emailed the head of the program asking for additional information and he never got back to me, which was rather disheartening. Undergraduate admissions seem very selective, but there is no information readily available about my program. I just wanted to get an idea of the general admission statistics. I also don’t mind that it is a conservative school. I am glad to hear your professors make adjustments. I read a horror story of a student who had a diabetic episode at Liberty, and had to inject insulin, and they refused to let him retake the exam.

Do you find that you are being supported throughout the dissertation process? Also, on average, how challenging would you rate the program? I have 3 jobs and 2 kids, but plan on taking one class at a time.

I am also considering transferring in credits, but it’s $100 per credit to do so.

 

As mentioned before, I am starting my dissertation on May 11th (next week), so I cannot speak to the support during the dissertation phase. I do not doubt that I will continue to receive adequate support during this phase. I selected my committee members based on my experience with them in my classes. One of them spoke with me on the phone several times for up to 30 minutes. He prayed with me on the phone. The other was my first professor at Liberty in Fall 2018. We kept in touch since, and I had him again in Fall 2019. He was accessible on WhatsApp while he was deployed overseas. I have a lot of confidence in my committee, but time will tell.

I always tell people, doctoral-level is not so much challenging, it's more about being persistent. The program will frustrate you at times, and you might feel like quitting. A lot of the assignment instructions are vague, which requires you to think critically, make inferences, and draw conclusions. This level of study is uncomfortable and demands a lot. It is writing-intensive, so be prepared to dedicate a lot of hours each week to complete your papers. It's not like master's level studies where there might be one major paper of 10-15 pages in the entire course. Multiple papers ranging from a few pages up to 40 pages will be required, at least in the criminal justice Ph.D. program. The bottom line is that you have to have good time management. I don't think the doctoral coursework at liberty or any other school is necessarily hard. The biggest challenge will be time management. Doing one course is advisable, especially to start. You can decide afterward if you think you can double up. I started with one, and then the following semester, up to the current semester, I did more than one. I am single, live alone with excellent work hours. I am home by 3 p.m. every day.

Btw: Who said that there is a $100 charge? As far as I know, there's no cost to transfer credits. The Ed.D. in Com, Care, & Couns. accepts up to 15 doctoral credits.

 

Thanks for clarifying this, I must have missed that part. It is nice to hear that several of your professors were available to you when needed them to be.

Eplus at @liberty said there is $100 cost per class submitted, with an additional $50 to appeal should you be denied.

I am not afraid of hard work, just want to be realistic about what’s required of me. Last question, do you use the school’s library to search journals for your papers?

 

Your second and third choices are schools that are infamous for their religious beliefs, public stances, and their respective founders. I doubt that would affect your studies too much, but it could affect your professional reputation and how you are perceived by others. Or not, depending on your own beliefs and those of people within the circles in which you travel. You should decide whether or not this matters to you.

 

Eplus is only for undergraduate. You cannot earn credits based on work experience for graduate programs. Yes. Liberty's library is very extensive (articles, ebooks, loans for printed books, etc.). I use Lamar University's library as well, especially for an exhaustive search of the literature for my Chapter 2. I also use Lamar because I have Westlaw access. It doesn't seem Liberty has that or maybe I can't find it. They have a law school, so they should anyway.

 

Thank you-Liberty told me to send over my credits via e-plus for graduate admissions-strange?

 

Could you also shed some light on how these schools are ranked? Also, in which ways could any of these choices potentially impact my career?

 

Regent is ranked #281 in National Universities by US News.

Liberty and Cumberlands are ranked #293-#381 in National Universities.

I encourage you to do your research. Ultimately, it's a decision that you're gonna live with. You said the degree is professional development. What type? You're already an LPC. Any of those degrees will check the box.

 

Thanks for providing those statistics, I saw them and have done my research regarding their ranking. What confuses me is that Regent seems to be ranked higher than the other two universities, yet its acceptance rate is significantly higher.

 

Your career as what? You said you wanted to do the degree for "professional development reasons." Are you intending to change professions? Are you trying to develop further in your current one? Is there someone (clients, colleagues, employers, etc.) you wish to impress with your new degree and title?

The schools you listed are not ranked in any meaningful way. Whatever distinctions there are between their ranking do not make a difference. For the most part, you'd be getting a degree from a school no one has ever heard of--except the infamy sometimes associated with Liberty and Regent. (It's okay; most of us with doctoral degrees earned them from non-famous schools.*)

School reputations can be difficult things. There is no doubt you can get a quality education at the University of Phoenix, for example, but there will always be someone who dismisses it--usually for inaccurate reasons. Same with Liberty and Regent. I'm sure you can earn a quality degree and have a good experience (even if the one dissertation from a Liberty grad I read was gawdawful) from either one. But it is also quite possible you could be disadvantaged in some situations because of the conclusions some people have formed about these schools--rightly or not.

*(I earned one doctorate from an unranked school and another from a university ranked 166th in the world. This would be about 66th in the US. Neither ranking--or lack of one--matters all that much.)

 

No, I am not intending to change professions but would like to further develop my education and become more seasoned in applying research into my work. I truly wanted to go for a PhD in Clinical Psychology or Counseling Psychology, but very few schools offer these program online. Additionally, I do not want to take the GRE, so there is that. Thanks for your help!

 

There are a lot of factors that go into rankings - acceptance rates is just one of them.

No prob. Why would you want a clinical psych degree? Do you want to become a licensed psychologist? There is a reason why many schools don't offer them online. APA doesn't accredit any fully online PsyD or Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology. So, most traditional schools offer them face-to-face. If you aren't seeking licensure, Regent's program seems to be a nice fit.

 

Ideally, yes I would like that and know that they aren’t offered online due to APA requirements. Due to time constraints, I am not able to pursue this degree in person. Cal Southern has a program that is designed to be licensure-qualifying depending on your state boards, but not sure how I feel about the school overall. I really appreciate your help with everything!

 

Calsouthern can be an affordable option for someone who wants to be a Licensed Clinical Psychologist in a State that does not require APA or for a therapist who wants to put PsyD after their name. Fairly affordable.

The problem for you with Calsouthern is that I believe someone posted that NY does not allow distance learning Counseling degrees (may extend to Psychology so check first).

Regent, Liberty and Cumberlands all have bricks and mortar campuses. Cumberlands is a little more obscure (can be a good thing). Regents campus and style seems to exude class and many would not know to associate it with Robertson. Liberty is a behemoth with a large endowment, a law school that does well and a medical school. Of course it also has President Falwell and that can be a bit of a distraction.

 

Thank you so much for this information-I really appreciate all of your help! I really don’t know what to choose :/

 

I agree with Steve. Not everyone will do what I did, but I applied to 10 doctoral programs over two years. These included Ed.Ds, DBAs, a DPA, a DCJ, and a Ph.D. For one reason or another, I changed my mind about each program. The only exception was ACE, where I completed the first Ed.D. course. Only the last two were criminal justice (the field I am passionate about). I selected Liberty University, and I am content with my decision. I'm glad I waited over two years to commit to a program. I don't know how well I would have performed in another academic discipline. So, take your time and choose the area you want to study. Your passion will help you with the coursework.