Touro Doctorate?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by cogent, Jun 23, 2005.

  1. cogent

    cogent New Member

    I have again toyed with the idea of a doctorate. I am hesitant about the USQ DBA or EDD (I have grad degrees in bus and education) simply because it is a different system. Some others like Walden, Capell, and Nova are just too darn expensive.

    So, I've narrowed it to Liberty (only because they will credit my Ed.S. it appears) and Touro.

    Does anybody know anybody who has a doctorate from Touro??? How did it go???

    Any recommendations????
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, Walden and Capella are too expensive, but Touro isn't? By what measure?

    If you want cheap, stick with Australian or South African progams. If you want to go with a U.S. program, consider Northcentral University.

    Of course, this decision will require you to go beyond the "toying" stage. Restraining yourself from that solves your dilemma.
  3. bing

    bing New Member

    Walden and Capella seem to be solid schools where many have gone for a doctorate. When you look at the costs of any of the non-Brick and Mortar schools Walden and Capella are much more expensive to attend than say Touro or Northcentral.

    Walden and Capella have residence components that you have to add to the cost of the program(room/board/etc). Touro and Northcentral do not. I recall looking at Walden and I think the costs were in excess of 40K for a program. Capella did not seem that much different. Depending on your qualifications, a Northcentral program can end up costing around 25K. Touro might be a bit less but I think it depends on the dissertation costs.

    You might find a less expensive tuition deal at UNISA or one of the Australian schools. However, there are questions regarding residence components for Australian schools, and apparently even for UNISA, that do not seem to receive clear answers(even figuring out the program at UNISA could pose a challenge, though). So, where the cost of tuition might be cheaper at these schools you may find that residence/airfare costs could eat up any savings.

    Do a search on the forum. Plenty of questions have been asked about NCU and Touro. Their websites seem to explain the programs fairly well, too.

    Touro was the first non-residence RA school for doctorates from what I recall. Many of the faculty from CSU-DH started teaching over there on the sly a few years back. It was sort of a hush-hush thing when it started. The profs doing the moonlighting there tried to not talk much about it. However, that was during the time I wasn in an MBA program at CSU-DH and things are possibly a bit different there now.

    You might want to wait for the Columbia Southern DBA program to startup, too. DETC accreditation is not worthless... depending on your goals. That will likely be later this year or early next. It is not RA, though. I'm inclined to think that their DBA would be much less than NCU or Touro.

    It is always good to hook up with a current and former student at any of the schools you are interested in. Nothing beats firsthand knowledge.


  4. bing

    bing New Member

    I feel like Columbo....\\\"Oh, just one more thing...\\\"

    Someone on the forum had brought up the fact that NCU does not participate in federally subsidized student loans(or maybe Title IV altogether). They had figured that having to take out private loans for NCU tuition would cost you $9K more in interest over the life of the loan. Seeing as how NCU and TUI were very similar in tuition, another person mentioned that they did not think it was worth the extra 9K with all things considered. I tend to agree...especially since the two schools seem to have similar utility.

    On the other hand, if you drag out the dissertation with TUI, you have to pay $1500 for each term term you work on it.
  5. tesch

    tesch New Member

    Re: Re: Touro Doctorate?


    The list of faculty at TUI is not kept secrete, and no one that I'm aware of is moonlighting or teaching at TUI "on the sly". A large number of the faculty at TUI are full-time employees with full-time salaries, so I doubt that few if any are faculty at CSU_DH. Although I fail to see an issue, I also doubt that more than a few, if any, of the part-time faculty or doctoral mentors are full time professors at CSU_DH.

    However, I do not see much wrong with faculty from different universities participating as joint faculty with another, especially for dissertation committee and other research activities. This is a common practice among all types of universities, which enhances the availability of subject matter expertise to students and improves the inter-faculty relationships, awareness and recognition among scholars and schools.

    TUI faculty list:

    In any event, I’m confident that TUI operates with one of the highest ratios of full-time faculty to student and full-time faculty to part-time faculty among on-line schools -- perhaps the highest among online doctoral programs for taught courses.

    Side note: Two of my seven masters degree program professors at the University of Wisconsin were full-time UW professors. The others were all professors and project management experts from other Universities.


    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2005
  6. bing

    bing New Member


    One of my professors in the MBA program at CSUDH, in 1999 or 2000, a full-time professor at CSUDH, told me that it was a \"hush hush\" thing. His words verbatim. He said that people from CSUDH were doing business with TUI on the side. Another full time professor there gave me a letter of recommendation for graduate study and told me the same thing. Not necessarily a secret but it was obvious that it was frowned on at the time.

    I took it that \"hush hush\" meant that they did not want people to talk about it. (The profs were Roger Berry and David Karber). I think the thing that concerned them, from what Berry said, was accreditation. I do not know if TUI was accredited at the time, in light of the PhD programs, but if they were not then there was concern about not having accreditation continue. Maybe CSUDH did not want their faculty moonlighting at such a school. Afterall, it was the first non-resident program. I was not looking at TUI at that time, though.

    Now, it has been 6 years since then. Things may obviously be different now that TUI has graduated people in their PhD programs.
  7. cogent

    cogent New Member

    Good Grief

    Thanks for that witty arrogant "academician" remark of no value. I will NOT get involved in a gold-plated program that will tie me up for 8 to 10 years. That is nonsense. Frankly, a doctorate would be for me a "nice to have." I'm already tenured. A doctorate would give me a teeny pay boost at my college but more of a pay boost in my adjunct work with other universities. I do not have the patience for the same ole same ole rock and roll I've been through and others have gone through, such as screwing with a candidate for eight to ten years. A doctorate should take three (ideal) to four years, TOPS. I asked a simple question about Liberty or Touro. Capella, Walden, and Nova ARE that much more expensive to the point of not being worth it. If anything, your arrogance reminds me of the pinheads I had to deal with in my past education and at my own college. Of course, they don't try that to my face because I won't put up with it.

    One additional thing that turns me off in all of this... just ask a university about their doctoral attrition rate and see what they say. Seems like a ligitimate question to me, but some of them give you the gobbledygook answer from outer slabovia. The fact is doctoral attrition IS a scandal. Some programs have a 30% completion rate. But good luck finding the statistics. I had one major university, once I got somebody who would answer, tell me they don't track that information. I asked "why not?" I got a DUH as a response.

    Rich, maybe you did do me a favor in reminding me of all the twerps with doctorates who parade around like little semi-Gods. Or maybe you just had a bad day... if that is the case, hey it happens. Water under the bridge.

  8. thinktank

    thinktank Member

    Real advice

    Cogent - couldn’t agree more with your prior statement. Now for some practical advice! I looked at Liberty, NCU, and Touro. Liberty has a residency in Virginia, which is far from my home in California. But, for you, the fact that they will accept your Ed.S. is no small thing. If you can stand the residency requirement the tuition at Liberty is very competitive. I chose Touro because they are non-profit, WASC RA approved (people in California recognize this), Title IV approved (so I get competitive loan rates), and they have somewhat of a B & M presence through Touro College. That being said, NCU’s staff was approachable and “felt” like they where working for me through the registration process. The dissertation is handled differently at NCU as it is incorporated into the classes, but at Touro you continue to pay until it is done. On one hand, I thought NCU’s program was better for this, but I also was concerned that the dissertation shouldn’t be “just another series of classes.” I start at Touro on July 11, 2005. If all goes well, I will continue, if not, I will switch to NCU.
  9. thinktank

    thinktank Member

    Ed.S. and George Fox U

    If I may ask, what is your Ed.S in and where did you get it? Why did you choose an Ed.S. over a doctorate. I was considering the Ed.S. at one time, and as you mentioned, Liberty will accept the Ed.S. as partial completion for the doctorate. I also know George Fox University will accept credits earned after a masters toward their distance doctorate. Fox was founded by the Quakers and maintains a Christian base.
  10. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Haven't you done without a Touro long enough?
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Give me Liberty or ...
  12. cogent

    cogent New Member

    Ed.S. in instructional technology story

    A series of circumstance lead me to the Ed.S. in instructional technology program at Valdosta State in Georgia. I got into a conversation with the director, he asked for some advice, then asked if I wanted to be part of the first cohort. I loved it... very very good program. And it moved me nicely on my faculty pay scale... which was the reason I then went for an MBA from Morehead State. Now, the only reason I consider a doctorate is certainly NOT for the right to make staff and students call me "doctor" (you can't believe how many get off on that; it is so silly, too... and did I say RUDE? For some of them, they think it is their God given right to act arrogant and rude... thankfully, that rarely happens at a community college). The big reason I'm considering a doctorate is because some other uni's I teach at give big boosts for a doctorate. And I'm not going to spin my wheels at a major university used to jacking around graduate students (I'm 51 and have taught college longer than most of the professors I would have). There was an interesting article about that sort of thing (why community college faculty do not enjoy grad school) and it is because of the way we are often treated like 18-year-old freshman. I simply will not put up with that crap so some 25-year-old jerk with a doctorate can get his or her jollies.

  13. adamsmith

    adamsmith member

    USQ DBA does not require residence. USQ is a bricks and mortar university, its programs are affordable, and its standards are good!
  14. rryan

    rryan New Member

    TUI experience

    To try and answer your question, I'm just entering the dissertation phase at TUI. It has been a long and rewarding experience. The classwork has been challenging.

    To distill it down, I'm paying for the degree myself. I've got other financial demands, so putting out this money was not an after thought. In the end I would do it again.

    TUI's faculty is excellent. Of all the profs I've had, I'd say one was sub-par. The rest are attentive and very demanding in terms of quality of work. TUI also allows you to concentrate on a topic of your interest.

    For more specifics, a search of this forum would suffice.

  15. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator

    From Northcentral's Ed.D. website - "Note: Individuals holding an Education Specialist degree or who are ABD (all but dissertation) may be eligible to transfer additional credit based on academic evaluation. All transcripts must be submitted for a complete evaluation of transfer credits."

    It wouldn't hurt to see what the requirements are for somebody that already has an Ed.S.
  16. cogent

    cogent New Member


    Thanks to the vast majority of you who gave decent answers to my questions. In my 25 years experience in higher education I found some Ph.D's can be quite rude; probably the only place in society they can prance around and take shots at people without risk. Except when dealing with me, haha. I've trained the Ph.D's at my college to behave themselves around me and it really didn't take long. You just have to be loud and public in instructing them to act with civility.

    Touro I know about from the master's level as my wife did an MBA there and raved about it. I went to their graduation last year and met some of the people and felt fine. But I also know there is a vast difference from masters to doctorate.

    USQ is foreign, and that can be bad and good. It sure would give me a reason to go there and visit.

    Liberty... well, even though I'm a conservative, I'm not a religious conservative. I'd rather not be preached to (my religion is a private thing). HOWEVER, if I can get somebody there to explain what exactly they mean by rolling and Ed.S. into their doctorate, it still might be appealing for me.

    NorthCentral is hmmmm well... it is located about an hour north of me actually, but seems quite pricey. I've heard good and bad about them. They really aren't on my radar screen.
  17. Oherra

    Oherra New Member

    I am really looking at Touro for a doctorate, of course I am still trying to decide whether or not to get one, but I contacted them for information some time ago and have not heard anything from them.

    I crossed North Central off my list when they dropped federally funded financial aid. Some of us have not quite risen out of destitute college student status yet and the aid really would help. I certainly don't want private loans with the interest they charge.

    Edited to add: Walden has been extremely nice, and sent me quite a bit of information, however, at this point in time their residency requirements are not possible for me.
  18. JoAnnP38

    JoAnnP38 Member

    Re: Good Grief

    Overreact much? Do you teach for any distance learning schools? If so, can you send me or post your real name so I can make sure I don't take courses from an instructor who is so bitter? I think that would be a favor to both of us.
  19. cogent

    cogent New Member

    haha funny

    Actually, if you did your work and handed it on time you'd find me delightful.
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Good Grief

    There was no malice, bad intent, or sarcasm in my post. That you read it in that fashion says a lot, though.

    "Twerps with doctorates"? Sounds like you have issues with other people's accomplishments, even when they don't. Whether you do or not, what you posted was rude and childish.

    Good luck in your pursuit. Perhaps you'll grow up along the way. As for your comment about people not calling you "doctor," that really isn't an issue, is it? :rolleyes:
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2005

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