This really might be the end of ITT

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Michigan68, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. Michigan68

    Michigan68 Active Member

  2. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

    I just read about that. ITT Tech was one of the largest for-profits in the industry. The stuff is really hitting the fan now.
  3. AV8R

    AV8R Active Member

  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    "I didn't kill him, I just pressed on his carotid artery which stopped the flow of blood to his brain. That's all."
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    "Oh yes, you did! Don't be so modest. Now take this medal..."

  6. DxD=D^2

    DxD=D^2 Member

  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    I'm wondering how much of this is guilt by association with ACICS?
  9. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    In fairness I think it was the other way around. I think ACICS was deemed guilty because it accredited ITT Tech.

    This does, indeed, look bad. Then again, Everest's fall was a pretty big blow.

    But...a blow to what?

    A blow to all "for-profit" universities, even the ones that don't operate like Everest or ITT Tech? Even the ones with good numbers, relatively low tuition and the ones that don't even take financial aid?

    I think what we're seeing here is the market rightsizing itself. In UoP's glory days they could sustain legions of online students AND have physical campuses scattered all over the country.

    ITT's business model relied pretty heavily on those local campuses as did Everest.

    But then you see companies like CEC divesting all of their career programs through either sale or closure and then focusing on two schools with a relatively modest foot print (a bunch of AIU and CTU campuses have also closed).

    If the University of Phoenix focused on being a Phoenix based university that offered online programs they could, potentially, rebuild some reputation. At this stage a name change might be necessary as well. But people are still enrolling. Companies are still partnering with them for educating their workforce.

    I think this is the death blow to the giant nationwide for-profit universities. But I don't think for-profit universities are going anywhere. For a while, major beer companies with massive reach were considered "the best." The contest for best beer was between nationwide players. Now the beer culture focuses on small micro breweries that sometimes have no distribution beyond their own retail storefront.

    We went from small breweries to large breweries to many, many small breweries again.

    We went from a handful of small for-profit schools with limited programming to massive giants. And who is thriving? Who is avoiding controversy? Your AMUs, ACEs, Pattens and others.

    You can't kill capitalism. Ask China.
  10. BMWGuinness

    BMWGuinness New Member

    It's been a while since I've posted here since I finished all of my academic schooling. However, I found out today that a friend of mine finished his AA at ITT and is starting his Bachelor Degree online at ITT.

    I was wondering if anyone had a good online regionally accredited school that would accept his credits for the AA from ITT.

  11. Michigan68

    Michigan68 Active Member

    It all depends on the degree program . . . .but Colorado Tech took credits from ITT, Anthem College and my RA Community College.

    I had a bunch of NA credits and for-profit RA colleges were they only ones that would help me and I am thankful for that. It would have been very time consuming and expensive to repeat these classes.

  12. curtisc83

    curtisc83 New Member

    Liberty will take them, plus they are a non-profit.
  13. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If Title IV loans are "publicly supported", why am I paying them back all by myself?
  15. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Some of them are so good that you don't need to borrow money at all.

    Besides, I think you might be surprised at how many non-profit schools only stay in business because of these same federal subsidized student loans and have incredibly poor job outcomes for their graduates.
  16. Michigan68

    Michigan68 Active Member

    A college in Michigan, Hillsdale College says they have never accepted Federal Support. "The college declines to accept federal financial support, providing private financial assistance to its students" I have understood this to mention Title-IV funding.
  17. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's because ITT Tech charges nearly $80,000 for a bachelor's degree.

    Do you have any subsidized loans? You would also qualify for forgiveness if you worked for a non-profit or government agency for 10 years.

    Hillsdale is non-profit, but there are some for-profits that do not participate in Title IV. Most of the ones I've seen are DEAC-accredited, but there are a few that are regionally accredited.
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It's very, very hard to imagine that existing if there were a market system for student loans.

    No. But it would be interesting to find out how much of the total cost of a subsidized student loan is really paid by taxpayers.

    That's true. But I think of that as much as a federal subsidy to non-profits and state and local governments. A real benefit doesn't lock you into a particular category of employer.

    Virginia International University is non-profit and doesn't participate, but 98% of their students are international on F-1 visas, so they have little incentive to wade through all the peanut butter required to participate in Title IV.
  19. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I imagine ACE is primarily relying on employee (typically school districts) tuition assistance programs to foot the bill for their programs.

    $80k is too much for a bachelors program. I think that is the case for any bachelors program. If it is a top ranked school then, well, ok if you can pay for it then why not?

    But if it is anything less than that then it is over the top. And there are plenty of non-profit schools that have zero name recognition charging the same amount.

    I also take issue, somewhat, with the public service debt forgiveness program. There are degree programs where public service is highly likely regardless of this sort of incentive. There are others that are far less likely regardless of this incentive.

    If I have a degree in, say, Social Work I stand a pretty good chance of working for a non-profit or government agency if I'm actually working in my field. A relatively small portion of social workers are working in a for-profit setting (and I'd bet the bulk of them are self-employed therapists). A nurse can move seemlessly between both worlds. An accountant, however, might not be able to because corporate finance and non-profit accounting are different worlds.

    It also sends a weird message; if you work for a non-profit you're working for the public good and if you are working at a for-profit company you're not. There are plenty of non-profits that are basically taking advantage of the tax code to line the pockets of a handful of people. And there are plenty of for-profit companies whose only crime is creating jobs and treating their employees fairly.

    Do we really need to try to lure software developers away from startups, which could be the next Google, so that they can pound the keys of a 12 year old Dell at the Helpdesk of the DMV?
  20. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    That is my instrinsic understanding of how a for-profit to operate. Default should not be externalized to taxpayers but to the institution and its stake/stock holders.

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