This really fries me...

Chris: Touro's fix here is very simple, hire a few more instructors in the MPH program or limit students and ditch the PHD program.

Bao: How do you know the problems are only within TUI's School of Health? What are about TUI's School of Business Administration, Education and Information Technology?

Ike: A lot of things were over-bloated. A case in point was TUI's intent to pursue AACSB accreditation. We were inundated with news of how AACSB accreditation is almost a fait accompli and how they intend to achieve their goal with a short period of time. It was even affirmed that TUI would secure the business accreditation in as little as three calendar years as if to suggest that AACSB accreditation pivots on fortuity.

Bao: I agree with your views. I also agree with Chris that this probation will make "Touro much wiser and a better school."

 

Because

That was the the program referred to in MSA'a report on the probation which was posted yesterday.

 

Remember that the faculty is only one part of the issue, the other is the quality of the program. That won't be as easy to fix.

 

Read my response again...

and read the posted quote listing Touro's shortcomings. I said they could axe the doctoral program where quality is being called into question. The doctoral program at Touro is undoubtedly a smaller part of the overall package than the rest so, as a last resort, it could be axed to save the rest. It would upset the current PHD students but it IS a very easy fix. The only problem they had with the MPH was with the curriculum plan and staffing. You can bet the inspectors told Touro what they needed to do for the curriculum so they already know what changes they need to make. In fact, I am certain that the inspectors related all of the problems they saw as well as possible solutions during the inspection. Touro would have been working on fixes even before the report hit the street. It would appear from some statements made by Touro to MSA that they have already submitted a plan to remedy al of the shortcomings addressed by the inspectors so all of this may be moot already.

 

Probation

Folks,

I just got off the phone with Dr. Gold. I am absolutely positive that this "issue" isn't really an issue at all. In fact, here's the provost's response to the accreditation probation:

"TUI has already taken the appropriate steps to address all the concerns expressed by Middle States relating to its Ph.D. degree programs. A progress report was submitted to Middle States. We believe that these steps will lead to lifting Touro College's probation."

Worry not! We'll all be fine. What we don't need is a bunch of unnecessary publicity of an issue that isn't really a big deal. It really sheds a bad light on the school AND ITS STUDENTS! Just have patience and faith that everything will be alright.

Thank you,
Gary

 

This discussion seems like Monday-Morning Quarterbacking. We are here giving out opinions about matters that already fixed by TUI administration. I will stop my two cents and take Gary's advice of being patience and waiting for MSA's upcoming progress report.

 

Response from Carl...

As the person who started this thread, now it is my turn to sort of weigh in.

One of the previous posters asked if the source of my anger had something to do with inquiries about a life experience degree in the past. To this I respond ???? "say what"? What does that possibly have to do with my concern about a legitimate accredited institution that I considered going to having credibility problems at this point?

My interest in life experience degrees, just to set the record straight, is more from a perspective of general inquiry into the whole spectrum of educational options. Even though I work in higher education, and perhaps because I do, it is not immediately obvious what works and what doesn't. I have a much clearer perspective of that now, and fortunately am enrolled in a solidly accredited (unlike Touro) DL MBA / MA program.

I do think that this board, and the opinions on it, are sometimes held as "expert views" by the general public that comes here. Certainly that is the tenor of the discussion when the upper crust here takes on places like SRU, Greenwich, and the lower forms of life that exist in the diploma mill realm. But, suddenly all expertise becomes just "anonymous advice" when applied to places like Touro? Please.

There are clearly some agendas that are driven by this board, most of which are legit, and some which are just plain off-base.

Having said that, I'm probably off-base myself in being so upset about Touro, but hey that's just the way I feel. I'd be really pissed right now if I had gone ahead with Touro because one of the main reasons I would have done so is through extensive review of the glowing posts on this discussion board.

 

Carl - I can related somewaht, since TUI was a school I was considering and had never heard of them before this board, but now being a regular, I see that there is not only opinions, but WRONG information posted at times, so everything found here should be checked up on and taken with a grain of salt.

I still do regard many here as experts, in their respective areas, but when I ask something, I do view who is responding before I see it as fact.....

 

Touro is rather obscure? Yeah, I guess so. (Though I question whether it's any more obscure than Capella or Excelsior. Phoenix is its own phenomenon, both good and bad.)

But Touro is no more obscure than hundreds of other schools that aren't nationwide household names. A student that wants a university with instant worldwide name recognition needs to factor that desire in at the beginning when choosing a school in the first place.

I think that the accreditation problem is more serious. It's a substantial consideration that people will have to take into account when deciding whether or not to enroll in Touro. But I'd guess that it will be resolved successfully.

This is just a DL discussion board, Carl. It tends to attract educated adults who are associated in some way (prospective student, current student, alum, faculty member or whatever) with university level continuing education, often at the graduate level.

Everybody here has his or her own interests and needs. Presumably everyone is competent to make their own decisions for themselves. Nobody can or should take advice blindly or uncritically.

Touro was/is discussed a lot, but much of its attraction has always been its no-residencies doctoral program policy, its easy admissions and its relatively low cost. That's what many inquirers specifically ask for: a low-hassle, student-friendly alternative for working adults.

I don't think that Touro was ever presented as a major international center of scholarly leadership or a "top tier" knock-em-dead name. People looking for those latter things probably should consider applying to several highly selective high-profile research intensive programs and studying traditionally on campus. It isn't rocket science.

But people don't want to make the necessary sacrifices, they want it all served up easy, on a plate. Then they blame Degreeinfo because their compromises involve inevitable costs and trade-offs, and involve them in situations that aren't perfect by every measure.

Personally, I think that some people who post here do have considerable DL expertise. This board is very educational. If it wasn't, I wouldn't read it so regularly.

But posts are just data points. I kind of informally and intuitively weight them by credibility and relevance. That's my own judgement, based on what I know of the individuals who wrote the posts, whether what they are saying makes inherent sense to me and whether it coheres with what I believe that I already know.

Nothing in life is 100% certain. Here it's all just words on a screen.

Just because somebody who seems kind of authoritative recommends a school doesn't mean that anyone else is obligated to start saluting. The suggestion is just something for inquirers to pay attention to and investigate for themselves.

They are the ones who must ultimately decide if the suggestion meeds their own personal requirements.

 

Re: Response from Carl...

The difference between Touro and degree mills is huge. It's like someone saying that I'm a wine tasting expert because I said that muddy water makes for a very poor wine. Is Touro better than UNISA? I don't know. It depends on your situation, what you wish to accomplish and I don't feel qualified to answer. If the choice is Touro or SRU then I have an opinion.

 

Our SoCal message: Fine. Go. But leave us the water, please. We're thirsty. Mulholland lives. Dam!

(Stop me before I obscure reference again.... )

 

Carl, both of your post's

verify that chip on your shoulder. Your vehemence in this matter extends far beyond "concern about a legitimate accredited institution that I considered going to having credibility problems at this point?"

I just pointed out that in the past it was YOU who labeled anyone on this board experts. I haven't seen anyone claim it so even though I would point to some of them (not myself, by the way) as such.

Personally, I would still recommend someone attend Touro's MBA program as I HAVE NO DOUBTS as to its continued existence. Those who will note this probation would have already labeled TUI unacceptable in the first place. I never recommended its PHD program as it is one I passed on myself. I would also point out that I have never seen any portion of the other DL learning institutions you listed as first in anything by US News & World so the good goes with the bad in this instance.

Lighten up before you boil over your blood pressure.

 

Rich

I though all of your water came from rivers to the east of you?

I understand your concern about drinking but what about bathing?

 

I'm terribly sorry Touro is going thru this ordeal. Not an expert, of course, (disclaimers seem to be necessary from now on) but I am pretty sure everything will soon return to normal.

Kristie,

could you or anyone for that matter clarify whether or not Regionally Accreditors look as well to the quality of the programs? If so, and asking candidly (for everyone), are then NCU PhD programs considered to be of good quality since the university has been regionally accredited?

It puzzles me.

 

I was referencing the quote of the 7 or so areas needed for improvement to get off probation. I do not personally know about NCU, TUI, or any of the others, only the one I am in - Faculty is one issue, but the program is another. (though I have seen the debates on NCU )

Someone said earlier, it is an easy fix, just eliminiate the program, but what about the current students? And what value would having the degree that is no longer offered due to quality issues hold? Anyway, it is not as cut and dry as some would like it to be.

 

Kristie....

do you realize how many people out there hold degrees from schools or programs which no longer exist? TONS!!! Take a look at a list of closed shools sometime. There are a lot of them and they still have a lot of graduates out in the working world. Is it easy to close a doctoral program? Yes! Is it desirable? No! But that does not take away from the fact closing a program is easy. Never confuse desirability with ease. It is easy to get a divorce but it may be undesirable when she takes half (or more) of everything you own. My point is that probation of a single program does not in fact jeopardize an entire school when the offending program can be made to go away as a last resort. However, this won't even get that far as I believe the whole thing is way blown out of proportion.

 

Re: Kristie....

OK, let me explain a bit of the topics above. Some say the solution is easy - hire faculty and get rid of the PhD program. Those might be easy, if it is desired. SO the solution is not easy, since there are trades.

I don't think anybody can disagree that it would be better to have a degree from an open accredited program, than not - all other things being equal. I agree it happens, but since the HR world is not very educated about accreditation and closed universities, it is not optimal.

Yes, I can see if HE took half, but that is why you decide when you marry (or enroll), a divorce is not simple and a program being split from a school has its baggage as well.

 

Re: Rich

Hey, we've got plenty of water you can bathe in; just don't drink it!