Theology PhD's

oops a few typos in my initial post! Sorry 'bout that first impression.

 

Welcome! You are one of a number of Canucks on ths forum. In my case I live in the US but was once a fellow prairie dweller.

There are a couple of threads going here about DL Theological degrees. If you post what level of degree you are interested in, subject, and what you intend to do with it, you will likely get a number of suggestions. As you can see one of the topics discussed quite a bit lately has been the South African Educational institutions. They offer quality academics and relatively affordable tuition rates. For example a research Ph.D. at Potchefstroom (140 years old) is around $4000.

Threads include: "Accepted for Admission, invited to enroll" & "SATS/UNIZUL".

Again, welcome & good luck. Don't worry about the TYPOS. We all have that problem

North

 

Anglical (sic) should be Anglican. Reasonable misspell for non-Anglicans/Episcopalians but a bit of a sore for me.

Very informative otherwise.

EsqPhD

 

I used to be Anglican. As I was raised by a wonderful English grandmother, what else would you expect.

I have wonderful memories of the old book of Common Prayer as well as the new one & some great priests who were positive influences. These ranged from Anglo Catholic to Evangelical (former Church Army) to a very liberal priest (whose theological views I did not share) who was an activist for homosexual rights (he himself was not gay).

One of my funniest memories is of the vicar ending service early so we could get home to hear the Queen's New Year's (??) message.

North

 

Sounds like some American ministers who end service early (or cancel altogether) for Super Bowl!

Russell

 

North,
Thank you for the response.

In discussing what I am looking for I should give a little background. My degrees in the areas of anthropology and linguistics. I was quite set on following the traditional path of getting a PhD and settling into a small college (I even had a tweed jacket with elbow patches picked out). Somewhere on route I returned to church and taught a few courses at local bible colleges. This changed my plans considerably.

I am now planning on entering pastoral ministry. However, I want to pursue some theological training.

In terms of 'Why a doctorate?' - I am still partially in love with academia, plus I enjoy making theory more understandable to the average worker, student, or church-member. Therefore a PhD in Applied or Practical Theology is at the top of my list.

Low/no residency requirements would be a desirable feature, but not a the expense of a worthwhile degree.

Any ideas?
Need more info?

Thanks

 

Depending on your theological predilections, you might be interested in the University of Wales, Lampeter; they offer a Ph.D. in theology that can be tailored very easily to practical theology, it can be done in a very low-residency format, and it's very academy-oriented. UNISA also offers a Th.D. in practical theology, totally nonresidentially and at a much lower cost than the alternatives (+/-$1,000/year), from the alma mater of Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu and former South African President Nelson Mandela.

I think Russell is also doing his Potchefstroom Ph.D. in theology with an emphasis in practical theology, so that might be another workable alternative, though I understand the tuition will almost double in about two weeks.


Good luck!


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

 

Was this in Canada or England?

I'm an Anglo-Catholic...but with a big heart for Baptists (my wife is an M.Div. from GGBTS).

We try to convert each other.

EsqPhD

 

HJ, good to hear from you. I will be glad to respond to any questions about Spurgeon's that you might have.

 

OOPS! Sorry about that! My misspelling certainly was inadvertent. It reflects the occasional lack of ccoperation between my brain and fingers, rather than ignorance or disregard for the Anglican Church. In fact, though I am a Baptist, I have greatly enjoyed my experiences in the Anglican Church (particularly at All Soul's Church, Langham Place, in London). Many of my good friends are in the Anglican ministry. Also, I frequently employ the Book of Common Prayer in my own private worship. So, please don't hold it against me.

 

Hey, everbody--It's neat to see this discussion resurrected after nearly two months of dormancy!

 

It was Canada & the early to mid 70's. This particular clergyman was terrific and had a wonderful dry sense of humor that I even enjoyed as an elementary school kid.

North

 

If your denomination does not require the M.Div and you can enter pastoral ministry with a doctorate in the field of theology I would look into the South African options.

As has been mentioned in the "Question for Theology Folks" thread, Practical Theology may be able to combine a number of areas. I would contact GST/PUCHE and find out if you could do a doctorate in Theology in an area you are intersted in (building on your advanced degree). Also contact SATS/UNIZUL or some of the others (University of South Africa).

North

 

Here are some web addresses. Just e-mail them with your questions.

GST/PUCHE: http://www.study-theology.com/

UNISA: Some report more success with contacting the Canadian Organization they have an agreement with, so here is the site.
http://www.iaci-canada.com/Homepage.htm

SATS/UNIZUL: You can enrol through the South African Theological Seminary but register for the degree issued by the University of Zululand.
http://www.sats.edu.za

Good luck. All options are affordable and the equivalent of Regionally Accredited (GAAP).

North

 

Thanks for all the leads. This has given me a lot to look into. In fact so many that I haven't been able to reply and show my thanks (until now anyway).

Of course the problem is now not which programme to enter but which one to enter first!

Jeff

 

If you want to transition into the realm of theology and ministry in most denominational settings, the M.Div. is the basic professional degree in ministry/theology that will give you a broad overview of such. It will also train you in Greek and Hebrew, a necessary pre-requisite in most advance studies in biblical studies and theology.

In many ways, not having the M.Div. (for most denominational settings in America) is like wanting to be a physician or attorney without going to medical or law school for the M.D. or J.D. respectively, and trying to enter those professions by getting M.S./M.A.'s/Ph.D.'s in medical science or legal studies. It is just not the entry route since the programs are different. This is why most professors of theology, etc. in a Christian/ministry/seminary setting will have an M.Div. in addition to other academic degrees in theology. If you do not care about entering the ministry or teaching in most denominational/seminary settings and want to teach in a totally secular setting, the M.Div. may not be necessary.

If you are just entering and want to go the traditional route of theology (95% of the time), the route will not be easy nor short. If you choose the traditional route of entry into ministry and perhaps eventual teaching in traditional settings, here's what I have experienced for myself and what you may consider (I cannot advise the DL route since I have not done DL):

After your Bachelors,

M.Div. (approx. 90-96 sem. units) and/or
M.Div. based Th.M. (an additional 30 sem. units plus thesis)

then,

Ph.D. in the area of your specialization.

I had to also have a working knowledge of German, French, and Latin for my area of specialty in addition to Greek and Hebrew. But for most specialties in theology and biblical studies, you can get by with German in addition to Greek and Hebrew and another modern language (except English if that is your native language).

The traditional route is not short but is probably the best route in terms of acceptability into the mainstream if you are just entering the profession/field.

EsqPhD

 

EsqPhD,
You make a very valid point. I struggle with doing my MDiv. It is the benchmark for ordination. My denomination wouldn't preclude me from ministry without it - I would perform a few extra steps though.

I may do exactly this and return to my doctorate later - it would just mean getting custom-made business cards (or go with the US format of only listing the highest/most relevant degree - or better yet just putting down my name).

I have a few phone calls out to denominational leaders and some people at 'our' divinity school to get their sense on which route would be best.

I certainly have appreciated the help and advice extended to me on this forum.

Jeff

 

What denomination are you?

Depending on your denomination this M.Div may be an important step, especially in establishing credibility with other clergy and providing a good theological foundation for ministry.

However, in the Episcopal/Anglican tradition is possible to do alternative preparation for "some" second career folks. Were that to be a route to go you could then possibly still pursue your doctorate. As an aside, although the Episcopal tradition generally strongly emphasizes formal credentials, I understand that the first female Bishop Barbara Harris has no theological degrees (maybe not any degree at all). This was an ax to grind with a Chaplain I knew who said basically "For God sake, if they were going to elevate a women why not one who was at least qualified (educated)".

North

 

North,

I am Canadian Baptist (which includes the Baptist Union of Western Canada, The Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec, the United Baptists Convention of the Atlantic Provinces and l'Union d'églises Baptistes Francaises au Canada). Within this collection of Baptists there is a range of ordained pastors with Certificates and Diplomas in Ministry right up to Dmins and PhDs. Having said that, the MDiv is THE usual route towards ordination. However -as you note for the Anglican church - there is growing flexibility for "second career" pastors (this is most often the case for the C-Min and Dip-Min).

One of the factors in my decision of which route to take is the fact that my wife (who is a licensed minister within this denomination) is going to complete her MDiv (she started it in her last church but moved to work at the denominational level and has put it on hold for now). Therefore our pastorate would not be without the nuts and bolts of ministry afforded in the MDiv training.

Again thanks for the comments its been very helpful to "think out loud" and receive the feedback.

Blessings,
Jeff

 

If your wife has an M.Div and you get a doctorate in a practical area of ministry and can still be ordained, you would probably make an excellently qualified ministry team. Very good resource for the congregation.

North