The Social Dilemma - NETFLIX documentary movie

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Lerner, Nov 22, 2020.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The Social Dilemma - NETFLIX documentary movie.

    Explores the dangerous human impact of social networking, with tech experts sounding the alarm on their own creations.
    I saw it today, its interesting and very relevant.
    Any thoughts?


     
  2. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Wow, I just watched this, and then immediately deleted Facebook from my phone, deactivated my Reddit and Quora accounts and logged out of my Twitter, adding them all to my blocklists.

    This documentary goes beyond "if the product is free, you are the product" to make the case that if the product is free, altering your behavior is the product. Shifting your thinking is the product. They're selling your attention and the increasingly sophisticated AI whose job it is to increase your time spent on the site, increase your engagement and ultimately increase your viewing of ads, is pervasive.
     
  3. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    Critics say this is the business model of Quantic Business School. But maybe it's just sour grapes! :)
     
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  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I had a Facebook account for about six months, I think it was around 10 years ago - or maybe a bit more. I had the impression then that this was what it was all about. I closed the account and never had any other social media. Works for me.
     
  5. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    They give examples during the documentary, of how Facebook was able to do "mass contagion" experiments where they 'infected' people with beliefs, for example increasing uptake of the pizzagate conspiracy theory by prompting people who believed in chemtrails to join these "related" groups, even though those things aren't really related, except that they're both conspiracy theories.

    Facebook also proved it could increase voting in the midterm elections, with the implied-but-unstated idea that they could shift who you vote for by reinforcing existing belief systems that make it more likely that you vote for one candidate over another.
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    @Dustin Perhaps they "infected me with the belief" that they were full of crap. It worked.

    DI is much better for social purposes. Some people are full of crap -- some, maybe not quite so much. Nobody can "infect you with a belief" unless you LET them. At DI, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. Facebook - no choice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
    Dustin likes this.
  7. GregWatts

    GregWatts Active Member

    Been thinking about trying to write / publish something in this space but need to more knowledge of AI. Probably worth the effort.
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I deleted Facebook off my phone a year ago and have used it much, much less since then. I've also just deleted Twitter off my phone and expect the same result. They're generally just not worth the time.

    This is all true, and worth discussing. (Although the documentary's way of depicting that was itself hyper-dramatized to keep people watching, which I found amusingly ironic.)
     
  9. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I never trusted these things, and learning that Facebook started right after DARPA's Lifelog Project ended only bolstered that mistrust, not to mention that Facebook does essentially the same thing: records the lives of individual people.

    Before Facebook-like sites became a norm, it was absolutely unthinkable to put on the internet your real name, age and date of birth, location, work history, educational history, pictures of yourself, details about where you've lived and traveled, writing about the innermost details of your everyday life for the public to see, and identifying all of your friends and family, because the concern (which we've learned to be genuine) is that this much information can be used against you in various ways and it certainly has been often. But Facebook popped up and not only made it inviting but got people to do it willingly, so much that Facebook gets people to voluntarily give them their ID with SSN if their real identity is challenged, and just the fact that Facebook even creates such a scenario should make people question what they're doing, but for the most part people just go along because questioning powerful people and entities (even when they do questionable things) makes you a "conspiracy theorist".
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It was less common, but hardly unthinkable. I did things like this starting with my first web site on GeoCities in 1996.

    Besides, I expect the greater privacy concern for many people is not what they knowingly put online voluntarily, but things that they reveal about themselves without realizing that's what they're doing, e.g., Google search history.
     
  11. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I miss GeoCities so much. I wish they archived it. I found incredible information hosted there on all my young-kid fascinations from phone phreaking to the 1996 Creatures game, to reviews of early 90s flight simulators. I feel like GeoCities really encapsulated the person-built internet, before it got all corporate.
     
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  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I agree! Thing is, anyone who wants to can still have their own personal web site for free, through WordPress.com (and probably a few other places). But it seems most people are content to drop all their content onto centralized corporate social media outlets instead.
     
  13. GregWatts

    GregWatts Active Member

    Here is the biggest problem;

    Scenario #1: Thought experiment: Before FB someone might give me a book explaining how Covid is a hoax. Then, I'd go to the bookstore and see this section on Covid. I'd see a book entitled, "The Science of Covid". Then, if I had been taught some critical thinking, I'd learn it wasn't a hoax and change my mind.

    Scenario #2: Post FB, the thought experiment goes something like this. Someone gives me a book explaining how Covid is a hoax. Then, I go to the bookstore and see this section on Covid. Every book supports the thesis that Covid is a hoax based on the original book. Then, I am recommended to join the "covid is hoax" FB group.

    In scenario #2, Johann comes up to me and tells me that Covid isn't a hoax. OMG, Johann is SUCH an idiot... I mean, all the books say it is a hoax, everyone I FB with know it is a hoax... OMG... we need "cancel" Johann.

    This is what is happening, to some degree.

    With apologies to Johann :)... the Dude abides.
     
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  14. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Interesting observation: since deleting FB on my phone and setting a goal to only log in to clear my notifications, I've had a lot more notifications. People who normally wouldn't ever interact with my posts (for example, I keep a Reading Log where I upload a picture of a book and give a little description) are suddenly liking these posts. My normal reading log post averages 2 likes, but this most recent one (on a subject as boring as all the rest) got 15.

    This is likely because Facebook is now expanding the people who see my posts, in order to provoke me to come back. Once I'm a regular user again, they'll rachet it back down.
     
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  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No problem, Greg. It is my pleasure and sworn duty to serve as a horrible example whenever such is required. :)
     
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  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think someone at FB might be enjoying the fact that you're thinking so much about FB motives, intentions and whatever else FB is thinking... Just a hunch... :)
    "Aha! We got to another one!" But no -- it's an algorithm, surely not an individual.
     
  17. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I think the documentary itself got to me. Now I'm imagining those three guys sitting in a room trying to figure out how to get me back. I'm important!!
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You're important, regardless. They're not. Want to make them crazy? Go back, say "here I am - under your noses," then take off from FB and disappear for good. They'll go nuts!
     
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  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Welcome to the club :).
    Same here.
     
  20. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    A propos NETFLIX, I got a veeeery good one. How do you say "Kiddo, you are banned on watching TV" in Russian? - "NYETFLIX!!" (sorry, could not resist)
     
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